A Question - What Would You Do?

David Graham You ask:



Not at all - after all it was his to begin with. It was not mine. All I added to the situation is knowledge that my friend did not have. I have done that for decades. I have never expected a reward. In a case like that I really believe I am my brother's keeper. I believe we all have an obligation to do what is morally right. Anything else is not the act of a friend.

Would you tell a friend if he had bald tires on his car? Or if he faced immediate danger, would you not warn him?

I worked at one time as a radio tower inspector. Do you believe it was my job to tell people about errors they were making or had made if those errors potentially involved worker safety, even if they did not directly employ me? There I was under a moral obligation and also instructions from my employer, not an FCC mandate to do so. Personally I could not in good conscience leave a safety violation unreported.

I also have spent many years performing authentications, appraisals and attributions for coin dealers and collectors alike. At times I was paid for that expertise but in most cases I was not paid (like for ebay). I share my experience willingly for the good of others, even people I have never met. However, I have also done contract work for Lawyers and estates where my expertise is required by law. Because of personal liability in cases like that I charge to cover needed liability insurance, out of pocket expenses and usually for my time. In situations where I consider someone to be a personal friend and there is no assumption of liability or cost on my part, my opinions are always done at no cost to them. If they profit as a result I am happy for them. A true friend delights in the success of his friends. If they offer me something fine. But if not - so what? I still feel I have done the correct thing.

David Graham Today's society can easily get to you. It is getting worse rapidly. But as my grandfather used to say "The old gent upstairs keeps the only tally that counts."

I was raised in the north (New England) on a chicken farm with my grandparents until my folks could afford to move out to a small 4 room cottage of their own. I was surrounded by extended family as a child (most within a mile) and grew up with a different work ethic that is no longer taught to the youth. I had chores to do at age 4 and the chickens always ate before we did. I raised vegetables in my own garden patch and sold them door to door for money of my own (mostly spent in coin junk boxes).

We lived by barter. I never knew we were considered poor by the city folk until I went to school. We had no phone, running water or central heat. I also learned the outside world was far more cruel than I was used to. I was raised under the moral code of the Society of Friends (Quaker), by my grandfather. The only thing of value he said we had was our word and we lived by the golden rule. He and his father who was born during the Civil War told me stories about my family history back to the time of the Metacom War (1675) and the arrival of the Pilgrims in 1620. Some of my ancestry inter-married with the Wampanoag tribe and traded with them. When war broke out my family fought with the Indians against the whites. I learned how our Indian ancestors were treated and died. From those stories I very early on developed a love of history and thereafter I always took the side of the underdog.

I excelled at school once they figured out I was dyslexic. Many family members had that same affliction. I started out in the dumb (slow) class but in 5th grade my condition was recognized. Thereafter, assisted by a high IQ, I was placed in an advanced class and graduated from High School and College Summa Cum Laude. In business as a structural engineer I never abandoned my roots and core beliefs. I earned a reputation for absolute honesty but I was equally well known for a zealous defense of my beliefs.

I retired in 1997 after a serious accident that almost took my life.

From the age of about 6, I took a liking to coins not for value but for a link with the past. My uncle on my mother's side was a counterfeiter. That is how I learned the inner workings and ethic (or lack thereof) of that business. I also learned that counterfeit coins could still be found in circulation. As a young teen, I switched from US coins to Mexican because they were the actual money used during the period before the Civil War and because circulating counterfeits of Mexican silver coins were easy to find and inexpensive to collect.

My passion for the US made counterfeits of Mexican dollar coins has essentially been a lifelong pursuit. I studied authentication of coins in the 1970's with private tutors in Boston and have worked for various dealers on a part time basis ever since. In 1999 after recovering from the 1997 accident, I decided to give back to the coin collecting community some of what I have learned. I began right here on this forum.

I see my knowledge as something to be given away freely to anyone who asks. I understand my own mortality and believe I have an obligation to pass along what I have learned before I expire. I never ask for much even when performing appraisals or authentications. I have been given the knowledge and memory as a gift and pass it along hoping to benefit others.

Perhaps that story will let anyone who wants to know, why at times, I can appear to be insane to the rest of the world. For any who have followed this thread - yes, I have worked as a supply minister and teacher in several Christian denominations usually struggling ministries and inner city churches. I do that as a volunteer as well.

The master commended the dishonest manager for his shrewdness. For the sons of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own generation than the sons of light. And I tell you, make friends for yourselves by means of unrighteous wealth, so that when it fails they may receive you into the eternal dwellings.

The ten cent rarity is not a clear-cut case of honest dealings IMO. Most collectors aren't buying a coin for resale, but to add to their collection. It's not my business to tell a dealer to update his bargain price and charge me what the market will bear. The coin would then become one more item in his display case, collecting dust in a virtual museum.

On the other hand, I will drop as much money as I can afford into a business that is struggling. I want them to be there the next time I visit.

I don't dig in the foreign boxes very often. But a similar example comes to mind. I searched through three dealer notebooks full of French coins. From the pricing it was clear that no one had looked through them for decades, and I bought a lot of them. It wasn't my job to update the prices for the dealer, but to empty his books. I came back a couple months later and picked up where I left off. None of the prices had been updated, except for some of the silver. The dealer knew what he had but he also knew that I was the only customer for it.

thq Just slightly surprised to see the quote from Luke 16 leading your reply.

That parable makes exactly the opposite point from what you seem to imply.

The parable extols the virtue of not being shrewd in business dealings in this life since that gain is finite and fades away but rather to do all that you can to assist people while you live so that you may inherit eternal life where you have stored heavenly wealth.

cons The coin dealer may or may not have known better, but you knew. Asking if placing a gold coin in the 10 cent box was an error removes your advantage and allows the dealer an opportunity to correct any error on his part. If he really wanted to sell a 1/4 ounce gold coin for ten cents, he of course can still do it. Taking advantage of anyone in that circumstance is not honest. That is an actual situation I was alluding to from an incident that happened to me in 1994. The dealer admitted that he thought the coin was a discolored copper coin with a somewhat similar design. The box actually contained many of those. He was as shocked as I was, but he was very grateful for my correction. As I recall gold was about $400 at the time and that coin had a melt value just under $100 which was more than the combined value of everything else in the box.

thq You say in part:



I certainly hope that you do not see that such an action in anyway justifies taking advantage of the dealer? Two wrongs never make a right.

In any event, your reading of the parable may seem to be the literal (face value) meaning of the story but as in most instances the parable contains a moral story that actually is a denunciation of dishonesty. Remember parables also reveal a truth that may not be obvious to the casual listener.

The setting of this parable is critical here. The preceding parables were clearly addressed to the Pharisees who were in attendance.

The steward is called dishonest as he is. He is a lawbreaker. The commendation is for his shrewdness not for his act of dishonesty. The master in this case, who is about to fire the steward is not a representation of a positive individual like in most parables where God is implied, but rather he is a wealthy man who is not about to give money away. He is just the type of person that is seen as a lover of his money. Jesus is addressing a mixed audience of believers (disciples) and Pharisees who he is lambasting for their love of money.

You need to view the context of the statement not just the statement in isolation. The ultimate point of the story is the Love of money is the root of evil not that the money itself is evil, but that it is better to give money away than to gain money in an unjust manner.

The second part of the quote contains the real condemnation because in it is a comparison between the "sons of this world" (evil people, non-believers, Pharasees) and the "sons of light" (followers of the way, the believers). So placing the dishonest steward in the ranks of the sons of this world condemns him while the less shrewd sons of light are actually being commended. Shrewdness in dealings is a sign of the love of money beyond our fellow man.

The third sentence is the most difficult to understand on an isolated literal level, but in context it is apparent that Jesus now addresses his followers as well as the Pharisees using a comparative analysis of the situation. He draws out the comparison of the intent of the steward who is attempting to curry favor with people in this world versus the disciples who he indicates in many places should give away their wealth now, so that they can spend eternity with the people they have helped.

There is an equally plausible interpretation that the concluding statement could be taken as a sarcastic view of where the steward will end up - sharing the homes of the unjust in their eternal destination of hades. I personally do not prefer that meaning but I can see it is possible.

The explanation that the steward was simply unburdening the debtors of usury that had been demanded by his equally guilty master (and that he did it as a way of punishing his master) is not actually in the story but is a later interpretation used by some more fundamentalist leaning authors to attempt to explain the literal word by word meaning without resorting to a text critical approach which they frown upon. An example of such a reading would be the NASB revised edition where an explanation similar to yours is mentioned.

As I said above, I zealously choose to defend my worldview against the views of this secular world that believe reaping an unwarranted gain is acceptable in business. I believe such money is an unjust gain and as my grandfather was also quick to say "Unjust gains never bring any good to anyone."

Your examples of dealer Overstock are entirely correct as long as you discovered that was the actual motivation of the dealer. Some dealers do that intentionally. However, by asking him if he made an error, I would suggest that it justifies the purchase at a lower price. A failure to ask and to confirm his intent leaves the possibility that it was an error on his part and that renders the gain unjust. I value absolute honesty far more than money.

Swamperbob. I must agree with your assertions regarding love of humans over money and the importance to your soul. However, a coin dealer (presumably has extensive knowledge) is also responsible for setting the price. Inventory is the greatest asset in most retail businesses. Managing the inventory is key to success. I give back overpaid money because the price was set. If you agree to pay more than fair market will you get a refund? No unless coerced.

At what point do you as a customer try to save the business owner from themselves?

Would you insist on paying more for anything else in a retail setting?

thq Agree ... your point about swampbob as expert in his field does seem to identify a unique problem for him as he has more knowledge than the majority of customers.