| Author |
 Replies: 8 / Views: 1,165 |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3237 Posts |
Do people just never check P mint marks for RPMs or were these not punched like D and S mint marks were? The only P mint mark listings I have ever seen are on War Nickels, even though nickels, dimes, and quarters all bore P mint marks for at least part of the RPM era (1989 and earlier). |
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4404 Posts |
I asked the same question a few years ago: http://goccf.com/t/329560We just don't know. But my thought about why there are no doubled dies during this same era could also apply to this. The dies deteriorated too quickly or they were severely overused, so most coins found appear to be MDS-LDS which is not ideal for finding and attributing varieties. But that could really only explain why they are harder to find, not how there's none. There are still EDS coins out there and no one has seen anything on them. Quote:
I don't think mint marks were hand-applied after the "P" mint mark became common practice. Can't remember the time frame for sure. The confirmed date the mint moved on from hand-punched mintmarks was 1990, well after the introduction of the Philly "P" mintmark on larger denominations. Edited by Tanman2001
08/30/2021 12:01 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1667 Posts |
Most coins don't have a P mintmark for Philadelphia. When a P mintmark was used: 1942-45, 1979-Present starting with the SBA dollar, except the cent which did it only in 2017. So there's a small 10 year window. from 1980 to 1989 all coins except the cent had a P. Going to assume, because I don't know for sure, Philly put theirs on the working hub or something from 1980-1989, for ease, and sent master dies without it to the other mints to put their mintmarks on them during making working hubs and working dies. Seems at least plausible. No idea for sure though. WHat I know "The Philadelphia Mint produces hubs and dies for every stage of the process. The Denver Mint receives master dies from Philadelphia to produce its own working hubs and working dies. Both Denver and Philadelphia also make working dies for the San Francisco and West Point Mint facilities." For sure the San francisco, not having a master die and getting working dies from Denver explains why S has so many, and likely why Denver has so many and why there are D over S. Denver Put them on, and likely just did it at the working die stage on a case by case basis. Possible Philly added it to their dies after the master when they made Philly working hubs, so all dies would be the same made from a working hub, and sent master dies without mintmarks to the other mints for them to add mintmarks at a later stage, either working hub, or working die. whichever they did. Edited by Big-Kingdom
08/30/2021 12:09 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4404 Posts |
Quote:
Going to assume, because I don't know for sure, Philly put theirs on the working hub or something from 1980-1989 You can prove this for yourself. If the mintmark was added to the hub during this time, then the mintmark would be in the same exact location on every coin. Just pick a random year on PCGS CoinFacts and look through some of the images. If they are all in the same spot then you may be correct, if not, then they were probably still hand-punched. (Hint: I think they were still hand-punched) Checkout the variance on the 1988-P nickels: https://www.PCGS.com/coinfacts/coin/1988-p-5c/4120Also the 1982 no P dimes is pretty solid evidence of this as well. Quote:
The Philadelphia Mint produces hubs and dies for every stage of the process. The Denver Mint receives master dies from Philadelphia to produce its own working hubs and working dies. Denver mint didn't have a die shop until 1996. So I don't think this is accurate for the time. http://www.varietyvista.com/Watershead%20Dates.htmEdited by Tanman2001
08/30/2021 12:15 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1086 Posts |
It might also be because mintmarks aren't hand-punched any more.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1667 Posts |
Well then, Ok. Philadelphia apparently made working dies for everyone, and then Denver put on mintmarks and such, very possible that the master dies thing I quoted is newer info after 1996 when Denver got it's die shop.
I find it kind of hard to believe that until 1996 the only place that could produce a die was Philadelphia. but that seems to be the information. Interesting. Seems like a terrible liability if there was an incident or war or something.
So, do you think Denver hand punched their mintmarks to every working die, and so did Philly, or do you think Philly, punched them because Denver didn't have a die shop?
And what's up with the D over S? Why isn't there a P over S?
I felt like I was in the neighborhood, maybe not the right house or street, but in the neighborhood. I guess not.
And I think they could put it on working hubs and maybe have just a couple hubs a year that make dies, or they could put it on the dies individually. how many mintmark positions would be dictated by how many working hubs they made.
I mean we are talking about billions of coins per year by this time, they were making billions of coins per mintmark by 1970 and later, must take thousands of working dies, they had to have dozens to hundreds of hubs still. yes if they put it on their master die, all working hubs would be the same and all working dies, but if they put it on working hubs, then made working dies there would be variations in placement, but it wouldn't be every million coins or so. it would be each time they went to a different working hub to make more working dies.
So why no Philly RPMS because heck, it could have happened. It certainly wasn't Phillys quality control! hahahaha
Maybe the guys assigned to add the mintmark at Denver and San Fran, just sucked at it, while the guy at Philly for that roughly 10 year period, was a one and done?
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
3237 Posts |
@Tanman yes, that does seem like a reasonable explanation. I am going to have to start checking more coins without doubled die or RPM listings for new varieties. I usually just skip over these years, but it would be interesting to find some that may have been overlooked for decades now (even if the Die Deterioration on many examples may make it hard to find varieties). And thanks for linking your old thread! That had some interesting suggestions as well. @Big Kingdom yes, it is well known that Philly produced all the dies until 1990. That is why the mintmarks were punched by hand rather than being hubbed directly into the design. @coinhunter4 I am talking about the era when they were hand punched (1989 and earlier). Edited by SamCoin
08/30/2021 1:27 pm
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
the 'P' mintmarks started on the War Nickels and then continued in 1980 on other denominations except cents. (2017-P cent is the only one year these appeared on cents)  |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3237 Posts |
@coop I'm aware. I'm asking about the lack of reported RPMs from 1980-89
|
| |
Replies: 8 / Views: 1,165 |
|
Posted 08/30/2021 11:57 am
