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 Replies: 16 / Views: 2,108 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
984 Posts |
Having spent an obscene amount of money trying to certify some Lincoln cents. These are my conclusions.
1. Any extremely small marks on a coin that are grouped together must be from whizzing.
2. Any red bu Lincoln that has a small patch not exactly the same color as the rest of the coin no matter how slight must be from cleaning.
3. Any color red that is not on the PCGS progression of toning means the coin has been dipped or cleaned.
4. Any XF or AU Lincoln that tones evenly with clean fields must be from old cleaning then retoned.
Anyone that produces a book of colored illustrations on silver, nickel and copper and possibly gold might make a few dollars. There must be a finite number of ways to alter a coin however many.
Kudos to all of you that have been telling me these things. Including the fact that it costs to learn how to grade. The advice to keep the coins and use as a learning tool is right on point.
The advice of going to shows and workshops is not feasible for me. I live 800 miles from the nearest decent coin show and work for a living so time is a factor. There are no coin dealers near me to ask for advice, I have rely on you guys.
What have I missed (buy only slabbed coins) I guess
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7293 Posts |
Sorry, but I don't agree with what you posted. As to coin shops, you need to look around. I have about 20 within an hours drive.
Before you send in any coin you need to know how to grade. Its as easy as that. I'm at around 75% in the ballpark. So I send in a few coins when they merit it. I've already said that sending in circulated wheat cents to grade is money not well spent.
I have several sets of Lincoln cents with the best being in my Dansco. I would never grade any coin (except maybe the 1909 S VDB). None of the others would get me any benefit. If you keep on wasting money grading details coins you will leave the hobby.
Its blunt but its honest, you keep on trying to prove the consensus wrong, but you're grade just show what we all told you.
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
As far as learning to grade goes, you can buy books on the subject and there is this web site https://www.PCGS.com/photograde/I am not that good at grading so, most times I will not reply to a grading post question. Congrats on 100 post  contest time  John1  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
561 Posts |
While not trying to hold PCGS on any high pedestal, these companies do have a pretty strong reputation because they are, overall, fairly consistent. I find that often when people have grievances with the grades they are receiving it really does come down to that individual having less experience in grading.
PCGS and the other companies can get stuff wrong, but if they were consistently wrong like you suggest they wouldn't be able to sustain business
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3328 Posts |
I don't think I would ever get a coin graded. On the topic of third party grading companies I always think it is odd that they are also coin dealers. They can choose to slap what ever grades they wish on there coins so I imagine if there was an MS 67 top pop coin they could easily grade one if there own MS68 and have a coin thats worth more than any other coin on the market. I imagine the difference in grade from MS67-69 would be so small, even a perfect coin graded could come back Ms 67.
I know little about grading but it just seems odd to me how they work, though I'm sure many of you agree with grading from these well established companies, I see a dealer who can control the market.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7293 Posts |
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I always think it is odd that they are also coin dealers That's not true. The don't sell any coins. They only grade. Majority of your post is blatantly just wrong: Quote:
They can choose to slap what ever grades they wish on there coins so I imagine if there was an MS 67 top pop coin they could easily grade one if there own MS68 and have a coin thats worth more than any other coin on the market Not true, they may take into consideration top of pops not to issue another unless they can confirm that it truly is a top of pop, but they can't slap a top of pop on one of their coins to sell as THEY DON'T SELL COINS. I imagine the difference in grade from MS67-69 would be so small, even a perfect coin graded could come back Ms 67 (Also not true, you can tell MS 67 to MS70, MS69 to MS70 gets hard, but MS67 to MS69/70 is a noticeable difference)
I know little about grading but it just seems odd to me how they work, though I'm sure many of you agree with grading from these well established companies, I see a dealer who can control the market. (again NOT TRUE, THEY DON'T sell coins) Edited by hfjacinto
10/11/2021 4:13 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3328 Posts |
Sorry I didn't mean the company them selves, simply the people who grade the coins. If they wanted to certify and grade there own coins there could easily be a bias, I don't know to much about there policies mayb this would not be aloud. Are the workers at PCGS aloud collect and grade there own coins?
Edit: thanks for the info, as I said I don't know much about the grading companies and there policies, and that is just for me personally as I'm not amazing at grading. I have seen MS 67 coins that look better then some MS 68 in my eyes but they take into account many things I assume other then strictly the condition of the coin(or no marks or scratches etc)
I should have worded my comment better as I did not mean PCGS selling coins rather the people who grade and work there.
Edited by Wrekkdd
10/11/2021 4:20 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7293 Posts |
Quote:
Sorry I didn't mean the company them selves, simply the people who grade the coins. If they wanted to certify and grade there own coins there could easily be a bias, I don't know to much about there policy's mayb this would not be aloud. Are the workers at PCGS aloud collect and grade there own coins? No... any company that allows that would lose all credibility. The grader can't even know who's coin they are grading. No grader of the top 3-4 (PCGS, ANACA, NGC and ICG) can grade their own coins. They may know for example at ICG (because they are smaller) who's coins they are grading but at NGC, PGCS and ANACS that would be a violation of policy. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3328 Posts |
That makes sense, thanks for the new info again. It makes sense other wise ya why would anyone trust them. I especially would have never thought that the coins being graded had to link to the person requesting grading.
I'll remember all this in the future, thanks again.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
984 Posts |
Hey my forum buddies, you have been nothing but as helpful as you could be and much appreciated. As for coin dealers I live 35 minutes from the largest coin dealer in south Louisiana ( straight from his mouth ) no sarcasm or anything meant by that. This coin dealer deals mostly in silver and gold and buys and sells silver mostly. He does not attend shows or update his inventory very often. He does try to help me but he is so busy all the time. It takes me 3 hrs to get to New Orleans , 4 hours to get to Houston, 6 hrs to Dallas and unfortunately there are no coin dealers near me. The coins I did submit were coins I had brought to the only coin show near me 3 hrs away in Shreveport, Louisiana Maybe 15 to 20 Tables and two had some Lincolns. I asked every dealer at the show who who listen to look at the Lincolns I had brought. I asked each one to see if the Lincolns looked original or not. I held coins up to coins I had purchased in slabs to match colors side by side. I didn't just haphazardly send coins to PCGS. If I can ever figure out how to take clear accurate pictures I will then post and hope several you reply to the pictures. Just saying I cracked a straight Graded coin from NGC and submitted to PCGS which came back artificially colored.. I just got 3 coins back that were from a different grading service with totally different details problems. just trying to figure it out is all. It may sound like I am complaining, TPG's are the professionals and have millions of hours of experience on me as all of you do. There is evidence on every problem coin show me tangible proof so I can make better decisions no one should accept just because. Grading is subjective to some degree but shouldn't be 100% percent of the time. I guess you could describe me as tet dur. Edited by grospoisson
10/11/2021 5:13 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8940 Posts |
Quote:
The grader can't even know who's coin they are grading This is...mostly true. If a grader wishes to purchase a coin they've graded they are allowed to know who submitted it provided: A) that person is a registered coin dealer, B) 30 days have elapsed since the dealer has gotten the coin back I know this is the NGC Policy, not sure if PCGS has the same. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7293 Posts |
Grading is Subjective. Sadly everyone gets it wrong sometimes, from dealers on down to the individuals. It is a known fact. But you can't judge a coin based on another. You need to take each coin for what it is. I still get it wrong 25% of the time. And yes there is no guarantee that the same coin won't get a different grade when submitted. But you have to start looking at the ones you got wrong and figure out why. I can tell every coin I submitted why it got what it did. Do I agree with the grades I sometimes get, nope not even close. But taking all of that out consideration, you still shouldn't be grading the circulated wheat cents. Enjoy them for what they are. If you really want slabbed wheat cents, try here: https://www.hyattcoins.com/lincoln-...t-1909-1958/Or here: https://thepennylady.com/coin-categ...wheat-cents/Otherwise keep them in the Dansco and enjoy them like I do.      |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3328 Posts |
I'm definitely going to have to add a good book on grading to my book list. Thanks for all the info guys, grading is currently out of my comfort zone(I never even try to guess when people ask)
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19975 Posts |
Keep in mind with the TPG's, just because they may reject a coin doesn't mean they are always 100% correct. In the past 10 years or so they have defined what they deem acceptable to be in their slabs and, if a coin doesn't meet that, it is rejected. They got burned many times by questionable coins and to eliminate that they instituted this "color standard" for copper. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
18720 Posts |
when I was looking to sell as much as possible of my collection I made the mistake of sending in about 30 coins for grading. some to PCGS and some to ANACS. if I had to do it over again I would never had done it. only 1 coin came back as I graded it as well as CCF members. I will never recover the cost of slabbing on some of them. that was the first and last time i'll slab a coin. put them in an album and enjoy looking at them as a collection rather than in bunch of plastic holders.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
984 Posts |
QUOTE
[/Grading is Subjective.
Sadly everyone gets it wrong sometimes, from dealers on down to the individuals. It is a known fact. But you can't judge a coin based on another. You need to take each coin for what it is. I still get it wrong 25% of the time. And yes there is no guarantee that the same coin won't get a different grade when submitted. But you have to start looking at the ones you got wrong and figure out why. I can tell every coin I submitted why it got what it did. Do I agree with the grades I sometimes get, nope not even close. But taking all of that out consideration, you still shouldn't be grading the circulated wheat cents. Enjoy them for what they are. If you really want slabbed wheat cents, try here:
Your advice is always sound and practical. Others on the forum also present good advice and I take everything into consideration. For instance, I have been told many times to look at coins already slabbed both straight graded or detailed ,then use them as learning tools. I will post 2 examples to illustrate my point. Unfortunately for me I have an obsession for a slabbed set. Please realize I have almost every Lincoln raw. Buying these Lincolns would cost way more than the price of submissions. I have a conundrum, take all the early Lincolns and try to submit or start over and buy slabbed coins . I am a gambler ( but so far a poor one.
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Replies: 16 / Views: 2,108 |
Posted 10/11/2021 2:38 pm
