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C'mon Man, Just Leave It Alone

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SteveInTampa's Avatar
United States
4637 Posts
 Posted 11/04/2021  5:21 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add SteveInTampa to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
The term Live and Learn comes to mind when I view this note. Early on as a novice collector I purchased this Fr.1890-J at a discount because of the chop mark on the face. I was a member on the CU forum at the time and read about a fabled note doctor named JimRob. I contacted him through ebay and sent him the note along with $75 to remove the ink stamp. The chop mark was removed along with some of the deep dark inking of everything else printed on the note. To any new collectors reading this, learn from my experience and don't mess with your notes. Before & After photos.

This is the original note with the chopmark on the right side.

C'mon-Man,-Just-Leave-It-Alone

This is the note after having the chopmark removed. The overall scan of the two notes look different because the first scan was done on a flatbed scanner with Android software and the later scan was accomplished with a different flatbed scanner with IOS software.

C'mon-Man,-Just-Leave-It-Alone
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John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 11/04/2021  5:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The "conserved" note looks good to my eye. If you sent it in to be slabbed, would it come back "details"?
John1
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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94367 Posts
 Posted 11/04/2021  5:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In all likelihood it would just come back without an "original paper" designation. Many early notes, especially large ones, were laundered and pressed for different reasons.
Edited by Coinfrog
11/04/2021 7:08 pm
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SteveInTampa's Avatar
United States
4637 Posts
 Posted 11/04/2021  7:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveInTampa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I tend to agree with Mr.Frog. I've examined the note with incandescent lighting, LED lighting and ultraviolet lighting. It's crisp uncirculated. A flat note with very little visible signs of embossing still evident. If I had to guess, I'd say a 63 or 64 (no Q).
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 11/04/2021  7:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Collectors from earlier times generally did not envisage that improving the appearance of their notes by washing or pressing would someday reduce their value.
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southsav's Avatar
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 Posted 11/04/2021  7:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add southsav to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am a newbie to currency and can appreciate your sharing of this.

My senses prefer the boldness and distinctive colors and print of the original note.

Thanks for sharing, it's a valuable lesson!
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jbuck's Avatar
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188213 Posts
 Posted 11/05/2021  10:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very interesting. I am not sure which I prefer, which just reminds me that I am not a serious note collector.
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Russian Federation
5172 Posts
 Posted 11/05/2021  10:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The difference in the background of Ben Franklin's portrait is striking, but could probably also be an artifact of differences in scanner resolution.

That aside, however, I probably would have kept the chopmark anyway (assuming I could afford a National $100 in the first place, which I couldn't).
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SteveInTampa's Avatar
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4637 Posts
 Posted 11/06/2021  2:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveInTampa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The biggest difference, to me, is when I compare the boldness of the ink on "The Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City Missouri" to the left of the portrait on both notes. During the removal of the chopmark, this printed area faded a bit.
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t360's Avatar
United States
2703 Posts
 Posted 11/06/2021  6:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t360 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see what you mean. Also the Js are very noticeably washed out and the bar under the George Henry Hamilton's signature has lost a lot of ink.
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Orac's Avatar
United Kingdom
150 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2021  6:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Orac to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Are the paper fibres on the surface of the note disturbed, I wonder, especially in the area where the mark was present?
For $75, your note may well have been resized after being cleaned.

I have always been against cleaning or repair of notes. Apart from anything else, they annoy me by their appearance. It is not a natural thing to happen to a currency note!

I only ever bought a cleaned note twice:
The first time, very early on when I was a novice collector, from a respectable London dealer, who in fairness, hinted at UNC but did not actually grade the note - a pressed EF pretending to be an UNC, which was pointed out by another dealer subsequently.
I learned how to grade after that ;)
The second instance was a very rare note which I was missing and was quite obviously washed, but if you don't have a rarity you buy it! This note doesn't annoy me when I look at it in the album.
I have only seen one other example since then.
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GregAlex's Avatar
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822 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2021  8:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GregAlex to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So he used some kind of chemical wash to bleach the entire note, along with the chop mark. Is there any way to remove ink in a specific area without leaving a light patch? (Not that I would try this, I'm just curious.)
Edited by GregAlex
11/09/2021 8:38 pm
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Orac's Avatar
United Kingdom
150 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2021  9:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Orac to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Is there any way to remove ink in a specific area without leaving a light patch?
Not to my knowledge.
Any instances of spot cleaning will likely either remove the sizing of the note in that area, leaving a portion of the surface of the note which is 'different' (not necessarily lighter) in texture to the rest of the surface, or an abraised area. Damage of this kind would be easily seen if the note is examined at an oblique angle to the light.

This stuff was fashionable in the 1970s. A lot of notes were damaged in those days by cleaning.

Sometimes notes were left with the scent of bleach or some similar substance. Other times the person cleaning the note would use too high a concentration of cleaning agent and the note would disintegrate! I came across one such note on ebay a few years back on ebay, from a batch of quite scarce notes which had mould. Cleaning was attempted and the result was a disintegration of some parts of the note! The note had been up previously prior to cleaning and I had a scan of it saved. It is now a good example of why to not clean notes.

Regarding the $100 in the original post, in my experience a circulated note like that one would have microscopic dirt ingrained on its corners. If the dirt is not present, that would be a good indicator of possible immersion in a liquid.

Curiously, I have come across an instance of a note graded as CU62 (again on ebay), with the following on the reverse of the info slip: "Comments: Rare in UNC! removed ink spot-back".
A cleaned note cannot be UNC imho, AU55 at the very best.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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94367 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2021  9:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Must disagree. Like coins, notes without "original surfaces" are often graded uncirculated with qualifications.
Edited by Coinfrog
11/09/2021 9:20 pm
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188213 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2021  08:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
For $75, your note may well have been resized after being cleaned ... Any instances of spot cleaning will likely either remove the sizing of the note in that area
Can I assume by (re)sizing you are referring to the same material process used in fabrics to fill, strengthen, protect, and otherwise alter the feel of the material?
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Orac's Avatar
United Kingdom
150 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2021  09:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Orac to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Can I assume by (re)sizing you are referring to the same material process used in fabrics to fill, strengthen, protect, and otherwise alter the feel of the material?

Yes, the process was described to me once by a dealer who was planing to clean a note before selling it to me. Rather horrifying, as it was quite a rare note - I assured him that I wanted the note in its original condition.




Quote:
Must disagree. Like coins, notes without "original surfaces" are often graded uncirculated with qualifications.
We'll agree to differ on that one.
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