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Jewels In The Crown Of George V

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Silver101's Avatar
Canada
1081 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2021  08:01 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I recently learned that the obverse George VI of NFLD coins includes four jewels on the lowest band of the crown. It was quite the revelation to me because, after having stared at silver NFLD currency for several years I had literally never notice them. And yet, they are clearly a very useful marker for distinguishing the great from the good as they are so vulnerable to wear.

Are these jewels present on the George V crown as well? I feel like I can just barely see them but I feel like I might be adding them myself. I've included a George VI obverse for reference. It illustrates the jewels I'm talking about - literally the lowest band of the crown - as well as a George V. I think it's the same crown, right?


Jewels-In-The-Crown-Of-George-V
Jewels-In-The-Crown-Of-George-V
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papeldog's Avatar
Canada
1923 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2021  08:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now that you have pointed it out, yes this is the first time I have really taken notice of these jewels as well. I had to blow the picture up to really see what jewels you were talking about thanks for the heads up good markers for high end coins
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 Posted 12/24/2021  08:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't see anything on the bright and shiny Geo 6, but see them on the Geo 5 and it looks like there may be more than 4. I can almost see 3-4 more.
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TheDeductible's Avatar
Canada
851 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2021  08:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheDeductible to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Check this link. You can see the jewels in the lowest band of the crown but even on the nicest examples these jewels are not well defined or accurately visible.

Thanks for noticing this! As said, definitely a great marker for identifying premium coins.
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TheDeductible's Avatar
Canada
851 Posts
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TheDeductible's Avatar
Canada
851 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2021  08:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheDeductible to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Perhaps only use of a new(er) die could have resulted in these jewels showing up?
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Silver101's Avatar
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 Posted 12/24/2021  08:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have found myself looking at some truly weird websites listing the various crowns in the English crown jewels. I *think* that the crown that both George V and VI are wearing is a stylized image of St. Edward's crown, in which case none of the details are accurate. Even the eight pearls that we all look at on the next band up are not accurate. So who knows?

[see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Edward%27s_Crown]

But, to return to the coins, there's something on that bottom band for both the Geo V and VI obverse's right? I don't feel like I can make an exact count. As mentioned above, I suspect they indicate both the wear on that lowest band *and* the quality of the original strike. Really, most details do that but in this particular detail seems to be a unique balance of those two things.
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 Posted 12/24/2021  12:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You can see the jewels on this coin;
https://www.coincommunity.com/canad...george_v.asp
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Netherlands
175 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2021  1:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Eligius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is not jewels on the "lower band" it is part of the ermine lining of the crown.
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Silver101's Avatar
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 Posted 12/24/2021  2:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Eligius - yes! I was told they were jewels on a previous post. And they do sort of look like little jewels. But they are in fact part of the pattern in the ermine....
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818 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2021  4:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Different crown design for original photo - only has one band.
Looks to be 8 jewels on the second style crown - one below each of the dual pearls and diamonds. Most don't show up even on MS coins - die could easily get plugged or worn.
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 Posted 12/24/2021  4:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To me, they look like "bumps" or jewels and not part of any ermine design.
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daltonista's Avatar
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1057 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2021  5:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add daltonista to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a question I looked into pretty thoroughly when I was assembling my "British World" collection back in the early 1980's. Having seen plenty of photos and TV clips by then of reigning monarchs wearing crowns, I thought something looked "off" about the reverse of my 1937 and 1938 Australian crowns and with some of the obverse effigies of the 20th-century Georges on Indian and other colonial coinages. It turns out my problem was with the crown itself.

I can't remember my exact source, but I do recall that I found the answer at the old ANS library up in Washington Heights in NYC. What my (now 40-year-old) research turned up was the discovery that since the early 20th century, the only crown allowed to be shown on coins, postage stamps, heraldry, regalia, logos, etc., is really a "cartoon" commissioned by Edward VII. It may have been a way to prevent facsimiles from being produced...is photography permitted in the Tower of London?

Anyway, the crown we see on all (or most of) our post-Victorian coinage is meant to be a representation -- not an accurately detailed rendition -- of the real crown worn by the Queen or King. My vague memory is that it was modeled on Henry VIII's crown, but I can't swear to that and haven't searched for images of that crown (yet).

At its "hatband" level, I believe we're seeing spots in the otherwise white ermine fur...much more noticeable in the close-up photos linked to above by Silver101 and in news photos available online of the three coronations that have taken place since 1910.

Here's what got me started. There is no "real" crown that looks like this.
Jewels-In-The-Crown-Of-George-V

Happy Holidays to all!
Tom



"If everything seems to be under control, you're just not going fast enough."
--- Mario Andretti


Edited by daltonista
12/24/2021 6:26 pm
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Mr T's Avatar
Australia
2180 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2022  8:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mr T to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That would explain why my attempts at identifying crowns haven't always worked out.
Certainly some are accurate but not all.
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 Posted 01/04/2022  08:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For us on this site, the photos of the crown itself, and its iterations, mean very little. For us, it is what the Mint's engraver put in/on the crown to make the master dies that the mintmaster approved. In this thread, the OP's coin has bumps or jewels in the lowest portion of the coin. It is not the coloring of the ermine fur ... they are raised projections to me.
Edited by okiecoiner
01/04/2022 08:07 am
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papeldog's Avatar
Canada
1923 Posts
 Posted 01/04/2022  11:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is an 1907 large cent Crown
Jewels-In-The-Crown-Of-George-V

lower band it has round beads and diamond beads on it.

Jewels-In-The-Crown-Of-George-V
Edited by papeldog
01/04/2022 11:21 am
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