1822? PTS Pj Contemporary Fake/Counterfeit 8 Reales - Interesting Coin

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Author	Replies: 5 / Views: 1,210
threefifty Valued Member United States 131 Posts	Posted 12/27/2021 11:29 am Hi all - I recently picked up this interesting Potosi counterfeit 8 reales. The date is not fully legible, but the last two digits look like they may be twos. I thought the coin was interesting since I don't think I've seen many other Ferdinand Potosi counterfeits, especially Ferdinand ones. I didn't see a similar entry in The Unreal Reales. Has anyone seen a similar coin before? Potentially this would have been a locally-circulating counterfeit, since Ferdinand coins were not preferred for the China trade? Weight: 25.98 g Estimated SG: 9.4 Report this Post to the Staff

realeswatcher Pillar of the Community United States 1962 Posts	Posted 03/02/2022 7:06 pm I've seen one other of these dies before (and also, I actually have a picture of YOUR specimen from some previous time). I don't believe Bob has recorded it? It's not on his photo CD... The date is in fact 1821... see attached: Report this Post to the Staff
threefifty Valued Member United States 131 Posts	Posted 03/02/2022 11:08 pm Thanks realeswatcher - I appreciate the picture and the date correction, it's awesome that you were able to find another match! This one is one of my favorites so far with the goofy castles and font. Report this Post to the Staff
colonialjohn Pillar of the Community United States 1757 Posts	Posted 03/03/2022 8:59 pm The more crude as with Kleeberg Counterfeit off-metal 2Rs the more desirable. Very desirable. The tilting "S" in HISPAN, the R in 8R made from a "P" punch and the alloy has hints of possibly being produced in the rarest alloy in this counterfeit Family = German Silver. But difficult to determine of course from just a photo? Does it have a ring of a bell tone? John Lorenzo Numismatist New Jersey Report this Post to the Staff
threefifty Valued Member United States 131 Posts	Posted 03/03/2022 9:52 pm Hi John - thank you for the reply! When flipped the coin sounds very similar to a silver quarter being flipped. But perhaps the estimated SG of 9.4 would rule out German Silver? I see online a range of SGs suggested as 8.4 - 8.9. But those are likely modern values. Do the SGs you have seen for older German Silver fall into that range? Report this Post to the Staff
colonialjohn Pillar of the Community United States 1757 Posts	Posted 03/06/2022 10:00 am When we published Gurney's GNL book and examining around 1500 or so CCC8R's maybe several hundred were analyzed by a high end bench top vacuum type XRF device. I did ask Gurney to search and send any CCC8R in his collection that he thought might be of German Silver. So from this thought and population we found around dozen CCC8Rs that were confirmed as German Silver (very few). Unlike Kleeberg CCC2Rs where this alloy is common. So I deduced that Gurney's CCC8Rs were all (in general) were made earlier than 1830 for Class I types even with the later monarch Ferdinand VII or to be specific probably pre-1830. German Silver in general did not reach England till around 1830/1835. Realize the monarchs (Carolus III, IV & Ferdinand VII) do not really suggest anything for their probable production dates but that most Class I's suggest STRONGLY an early 19thC production period due to this German Silver alloy situation. JPL Report this Post to the Staff
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1822? PTS Pj Contemporary Counterfeit 8 Reales - Interesting Coin