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 Replies: 22 / Views: 1,635 |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1273 Posts |
Edited by TobyJ
02/11/2022 1:43 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
I'm ignoring the first set of images and calling it an MS65+ based on the second set of images.  Could even be MS66 based on newer grading standards. Edited by dave700x
02/11/2022 1:52 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United Kingdom
1273 Posts |
I'd like to add that the first set of photos is the sellers, and the second set of photos is from a reputable auction site. The same PCGS number. HOWEVER, I have been comparing every single little mark to the second set of photos from the first from the photos available (The first ones shown) And to me there is something fishy, it doesn't look like the same coin. Look at the mark on the first photos near the second star on the obverse near 1902, next to the dentricles. This isn't seen on the other photos, there are several other marks that don't match up. I've been at this for nearly 2 hours. EDIT: Down the rabbit hole we go! The ebay sellers barcode has a different pattern to the same coin with the same number that sold many years ago on Heritage. Side by side as I don't want to reveal the number just yet. Is this some sort of a con?  Edited by TobyJ
02/11/2022 2:13 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
I can't find any marks that match the first set of images to the second and third (which clearly match) Is the first set of images the most recent? edit to add - Quote:
Is this some sort of a con? It would seem so.... Edited by dave700x
02/11/2022 2:17 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Something doesn't add up.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1273 Posts |
Is there a scenario where the coin could have been resubmitted and received the same #number but a different pattern barcode beneath? Otherwise this is a strange con where an MS64 slabbed coin has somehow had a paper certificate slid into the plastic over the previous. I am perturbed.
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
It could be a slab made in China... it's amazing what is available now from the forty thieves website...
Edited by dave700x
02/11/2022 2:30 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4680 Posts |
I think it might actually be the same coin. Lighting is different in all pics, but I think I can make out a couple marks that match up. Problem is lighting and angle are completely different in the last two "beauty shots" than the first. The first is accentuating all the marks. My hypothesis: possibly sent in for conservation (dipped) then re-slabbed? Surfaces don't look as frosty as they did in the earlier auction photos, and the toning spots are MIA. Or could be a fake slab altogether.  did you request additional pics from the seller? |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1273 Posts |
Thanks for taking the time. The barcode number is the same, but it is a different barcode pattern to the earlier auctioned one without the spots. If it went in for conservation, it is the wrong way round because there are spots on it now but not on the earlier heritage sale many years ago. I'm going to have to leave this one alone, but maybe there's a small chance that someone is going to get a bargain.
EDIT: I scanned the QR code on the reverse of the photo with the PCGS scanner and it linked me to the correct coin. I've asked for more photos and for any provenance.
Edited by TobyJ
02/11/2022 4:03 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1273 Posts |
New photos just sent from seller.   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3848 Posts |
Completely different coin from the first set of photos to the last two. Look at the location of the spokes on the PCGS holder that hold the coin in place.
Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1273 Posts |
I can see that thanks, so why does the PCGS app scan both barcodes (which are different patterns but the same number) as the same coin? ( I covered the numbers so it definitely scanned the patterns. This looks to be the same coin resubmitted for some reason but with perhaps added cheek scuffs and the same grade? I'm baffled.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6396 Posts |
In the US this Morgan is readily available in PCGS slabs up to MS-66 grade. Because of these troubling inconsistencies I'd pass on the offered coin and shop elsewhere.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
I would ask PCGS if two different barcodes can scan to the same label number.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1273 Posts |
I have decided to show everyone the grade early. MS67. It sold yesterday for £1000. PCGS price guide has it at $9000, and when I typed the number in to PCGS it brought the last sale up from Heritage for the same slabbed coin in 2014, link below. It fetched $13000! However, like I earlier commented, the barcode has a different pattern to the one at heritage as you can see for yourselves. I was very tempted to make a bid, as £1000 seemed low for this coin, but why the different barcode? Why the different positioning in its spokes? It was either a con or it had been resubmitted. I can't see why it would have been resubmitted, why would you ever resubmit a 67, to get a 67+ ? It isn't worth the risk. So, it is my opinion that the buyer either got an amazing deal at £1000, or something is not right here. Does anyone know the truth behind this mystery? Also, when I used the PCGS to scan BOTH barcodes (with hand held over numbers) they both authenticated as the same coin with the heritage sale in 2014. This is the link to the heritage auction in 2014 where the coin fetched $13000: https://coins.ha.com/itm/morgan-dol...ot=1&x=0&y=0Here are the seller's photos:   Here are the old 2014 heritage photos, if you sign in on the website you can zoom in and see them in high quality.   |
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Replies: 22 / Views: 1,635 |
Posted 02/11/2022 2:03 pm
