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When Are Varieties Not Listed On Slabs?

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ron6788's Avatar
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 Posted 02/07/2009  5:10 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ron6788 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I don't know about varieties on all coins but I do know about the Overton varieties on the bust halves and I'd guess it's similar on other series. According to Mr. Overton, each bust half date has only so many obv & rev dies and each marriage of the two is categorized. Aside from some rare contemporary find, all marriages are already known. So my question is, why doesn't every slab with a bh have an Overton number? There are just as many or more w/o one. It's not due to excessive wear either that makes them hard to categorize because most slabs are high grade. Does anybody have a good answer or guess for this? How about with other coin varieties, is it similar?
My poor guesses are that the tpgs are too lazy to check, the dies were polished or worn and changed a lot down the line (although Overton allowed for this), if all the points of a variety are not met the grader won't ascribe it, or just that people don't think it's important anyway. This always puzzled me.
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 Posted 02/07/2009  7:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add onejinx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the submitter doesn't want to pay for variety attribution then it doesn't get done. It's all about the TPG's getting their money. They are not going to do anything for free.
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ron6788's Avatar
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 Posted 02/07/2009  10:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ron6788 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
onejinx
If the submitter doesn't want to pay for variety attribution then it doesn't get done. It's all about the TPG's getting their money. They are not going to do anything for free.

That's a good answer. I did think about that but then I thought this was part of the service. I just sent a coin in to be slabbed by ANACS and I was told there was no extra fee for attributing an Overton variety to it.
If it's true about the extra fee, PCGS must charge a lot because I see the least Overtons on their slabs. I always thought they just were more picky about being sure.
Valued Member
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 Posted 02/07/2009  11:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Terror Of Zanarkand to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In my experience ANACS is very good about Variety Attribution, for example they and ICG are the only top tier TPGS that will attribute the 1971-D Friendly Eagle Ike ( I know this is a modern, but it's a good example of my point). I actually despise PCGS for many reasons and this lack of variety attribution is one of the many.
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ron6788's Avatar
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 Posted 02/08/2009  05:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ron6788 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I went to the NGC site and I see they do charge $7 extra for Overton attribution. But how cheap can folks be that they wouldn't pay it on high end pieces?

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 Posted 02/08/2009  07:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add onejinx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It works the same way with VAM's. Not everyone collects them. And there have been a ton of Morgans slabbed without being attributed with a VAM #.
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Jaobler's Avatar
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 Posted 02/08/2009  2:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Policies differ for different TPGs. PCGS and NGC won't attribute Breen varieties but ANACS will. I think most of them will do Overton and Bolander varieties for an extra fee. PCGS I believe will attribute any variety listed in the Red Book at no extra charge. I know that PCGS wouldn't attribute my 1877-CC dime as the scarcer Type 1 reverse variety (even for an extra fee) since they just don't "do" that one.

When in doubt, be sure to call the TPG before submitting your coins. Sometimes you might really want the variety listed on the slab and you need to make sure they will recognize that particular type.
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Conder101's Avatar
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17884 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2009  12:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Back when certification was young the services, except for ANACS, did not identify varieties, ANACS would for a small fee. The main reason for this was probably because PCGS and NGC were basically GRADERS. They had no experience with and were not qualified to identify varieties. Then as certification caught on workload increased so much that it just wasn't practical. When you have 20 to 40 seconds to grade the coin (and supposedly authenticate it)you just don't have the time to determine the variety as well. Now ANACS (as an ANA organization) DID have more experienced people and the reference library and the lower submission rate that allowed it. As the big two started branching out, they started listing the major RedBook varieties and seriously botched them. PCGS has never really moved much beyond the RedBook varieties. I supposed they know their Peter Principle level when they see it. NGC began a couple years ago to start listing some varieties on their slabs and then suddenly when Volume II of the fourth edition of Cherrypickers came out they decided to list all or the Cherrypicker varieties. Then about a month later they decided to keep listing the varieties, but they listed them by their own VP numbers which did not match any published standard reference, and they never published a reference for them either. Although they have never announced that they were doing away with the VP variety listings they don't talk about them anymore either, and they do still list Cherrpicker numbers. but there is a problem there as well. They may not do it on the extensively collected series such and the large cents, and Overtons, but on many of the "lesser" series their approach to attribution seems to be "Well it kinda looks like that one. We'll call it that." I'm not sure if we have found a correct CP attributed Shield nickel yet. NGC started attributing Conder tokens. They are a joke Wrong county, wrong city, wrong edge, wrong denomination, wrong D&H #. ALL ON THE SAME COIN!

Basically for either of the big two NEVER just accept an attribution on their slabs. You MUST always double check their attributions, and you will find them in error much to often. Before the sale ICG did a better job and ANACS did a much better job. Of the major services the best at attribution is SEGS, but they are weak on attribution moderns. For anything before the 20th century though they are better than any of the others.
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