1925-S Buffalo Nickel Grading Thoughts - Mismatched Die States

Great info in this thread. There are a lot of factors here, but I think it really showcases the difficulty the mint had with striking nickel coinage. Some of the early small cents were struck with a nickel alloy, but the heavy (and we're only talking 25 percent nickel) coinage really struggled for decades if not more. The Three Cent Nickel and Shield nickel series' are full of broken dies and weak strikes. I'm not as familiar with the Liberty Head and Jefferson series, but it would seem the mint had issues striking coins with this alloy mix for a long time. As fortcollins points out, the Denver and SF mints would have only begun to experience this in 1912-1913. It truly was the "Devil's Metal".

I don't have any horse in this race. My entire inventory and collections were sold earlier this year.

I like you, but I find that comment offensive.

Zurie, you are correct, a coin is only worth what another would pay but what I was attempting to convey was that if say you bought this coin at F12 money and then later sold it at F12 money maybe not knowing that the coin could be AU. no loss no foul was me saying that the coin sold for what the market would bear. both parties thought the coin was worth F12 money.

as for the coin being worth significantly more, the coin would be worth about $20 at F12. at AU53 it could sell for as high as $300. if one was well versed in collecting this series you may know that. I would call that significant and for the person with the knowledge about this coin would consider it to be an amazing buy at $20

to me its like showing a 09SVDB to someone who doesn't collect coins. they are going to say its worth a penny. to a Lincoln collector, they know better. you dont sell the coin to someone who doesn't recognize its value just like anything else that's for sale.

here's the rub, the only way to buy this coin at higher than than F12 money though is that one would have to be fairly certain that there were enough collectors that were well versed in this year to be able to sell it without taking a loss especially since the TPG's are not and most likely would assign a grade way less than what the coin should be graded at.

taking all this into consideration and what you know now about this specific coin, would you look at this coin differently now? would you pay more than F12 money for it? what if a reputable TPG graded the coin at AU53?

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I'm not convinced that TPG's would grade any different. it would require them to make a concerted effort to train their employees in more detail about the series. I never really collected buffs other than what I got in change back in the day but I find them quite interesting since joining CCF. if they did do this then they would need to do the same thing with other series with the same issues such as SLQ's. in fact, I'm not even convinced that they are well versed in Morgans and Peace dollar striking or any other series for that matter.

the issue in this case is not the collector, imo its the TPG's. so long as they grade, say the coin discussed here, at F its not going to change anything.

so whats the future hold for the series. if TPG's cant accurately grade a coin based on how it left the mint then imo dont have them slabbed and let the collectors of the series assess them and as you stated, "wait for the knowledgeable collectors to proliferate"

good discussion

As to ressurect an old thread to ask another beg-the-question here:

How many Buffalo nickels are legit MS-63ish or higher graded by the big three TPG's with gobs of cartwheel luster remaining that look like the OP's coin (badly mismatched die states), except in mint state, where we here at the CCF would generally agree in grading?

I miss seeing fortcollins myself, as his insight was great around here on certain coin issues

Interesting question. I just did a quick search on Heritage auctions for past sales of 1925-S Buffalos graded MS-63, and this is the first one that popped up. This worn reverse die looks pretty similar to the OP example.

zurie, a couple comments on the MS63 you posted. I'm under the impression that TPG's assign coins as they come in to next available grader. I may be wrong as I have no idea if this how a coin is assigned. lets say it is. is that person knowledgeable in the series? it appears that way with this coin that the person assigned had at least some basic reference to go by. so is it just the luck of the draw who grades the coin? do they assign the grader based on their expertise? I believe the coin once graded goes to a second look but I remember hearing graders really only have about 20 seconds to assess a coin. probably the reason they miss grades on a regular basis.

one thing we overlooked in this thread is what would happen if that coin was graded AU. would they be able to sell it for AU $. this is so confusing and the main reason to only slab a coin for two reasons

1. its a rare coin that needs authenticated and preserved
2. you are planning on selling the coin and the cost of acquisition plus the grading fee's would warrant it without chewing up all your profit