How Far Back Can We Go? Seventh Edition! Ended At 1380 Waiting On 1379

And today's set of jetons isn't bad either!

A very nice Thaler from Saxe-Weimar, Spence!

Not far from the Southern Provinces:

Arches & Charleville 1609, liard, Charles III.



Charles de Gonzague was Duke of Nevers and Rethel, as well as Prince of Arches & Charleville. The Principality of Arches (with its capital Charleville) had he formed himself in 1608. The self-proclaimed princedom was to some extent justifiable, since he shared an ancestor with Henri IV of France and he also had the Byzantine emperor Andronicus II Palaeologus among his ancestors (he later unsuccessfully tried to claim the throne of Constantinople). The principality was annexed by France in 1708 but the princely title was maintained. It is held today by Stephane, 10th Duke of the Belgian House of Ursel (but the title is not recognized by the Belgian state, neither does the Republic of France acknowledge the Ursels' sovereignity over the French town of Charleville-Mezières).

I agree! One reason I collect coins is because they're a link to the past. I don't collect anything except U. S. issues, so it's fascinating to see these incredibly old and historic coins and to be reminded there's a whole other branch of coin collecting out there.

That's a monster, Spence.
Looks like it was engraved with the brothers at the local bar having a cleansing ale.
Love this topic.

1608 - all eyes were fixed upon the negociatiors of a possible peace treaty between the Dutch republic and the Spanish Netherlands

The jetons show that especially the northern provinces were sceptical about the outcome

Dugniolle 3636 from Zeeland, mint of Middelburg 'the treacherous nature of the truce' shows an image that tells more than 1000 words: the reverse showing a trojan horse being pulled though the gates of a Dutch city. It is no coincidence that Zeeland was a critic of the reality of peace, as the front of the war was close to the cities of that province



OBV coat of arms of Zeeland surrounded ZEELANDIA and by smaller coat of arms of the seven Zeeuwse cities : Eerste Edele, Middelburg, Goes, Zierikzee, Tholen, Vlissingen & Veere
REV Trojan horse and city view EQVO ET CREDITE TEVCRI

The 1608 jeton from Gelderland (Dugn.3632) was discussed at length in the Thread "images that inspired the mint master" http://goccf.com/t/336420&whichpage=3#2884341
This piece shows scepticism about the honesty of intentions of the peace agreement



Dugniolle 3632 'lampoon ("schotschrift") against the peace treaty'
OBV: Ostrich with spread wings, NIL PENNA SED VSVS 1608
REV: Coat-of-arms of Gelderland, CALC CA COMP DV GEL z CO ZVI

The last example is from the Dordrecht mint, province of Holland. A Dutch citizen who is praying is offered a palm branch (peace) and sword (war). What choice should be made?



Dugn.3628, vLoonII.36.2, Tas396 - Dordrecht 'choices for the truce'
OBV FIAT VOLVNTAS TVA
CIC IC CVIII is a way to annotate the date
REV bundle of 7 arrows (7 united provinces) between the letters S. and C. legend: FORTITVDO BELGICA

Another Double Tournoi for me today. This one was struck in Lyon:

1607

Two years before the 12-yr truce was signed, negociations had already started in the Hague in Holland; my four jetons of today all allude to these negociations. The low countries were really tired of the four decades of fighting which resulted in no winner, only losses.

Dugniolle 3622 is an example of a satiric jeton; while the obverse side is quite standard (showing the portrait of the archdukes Albert & Isabella, facing each other with characteristic collars) it is the reverse side of this piece that is remarkable. One can see
a small dog (keeshondje) is playing in peace (or barking and growling - one cannot tell the difference) with a big male lion, the little dog representing the Northern United Provinces and the lion the Spanish Netherlands



Dugn.3622 Antwerp.'Peace settlement postponed'
OBV Albert & Elizabeth ALBERTVS ET ELISABET DEI GRATIA
REV small dog & lion play RESPICE FINEM 1607

'RESPICE FINEM' is an often used Latin proverb meaning 'consider the end' or 'consider the consequences of your actions'. Very interesting to speculate about the interpretation of this remarable jeton. One way to look at it is that this jeton was made to boost the propaganda in favor of the Spanish Netherlands.

Below three examples of pieces from the Northern provinces:



Dugn.3619 province of Ghelders, mint of Harderwijk 'Hope on the peace negociations in The Hague'
OBV: Man & anchor, dove of peace in the skies, REDEANT SATVRNIA REGNA
REV: Central coat of arms Spanish Netherlands, periphery coats of arms of Northern provinces, CAMERA RATIONVM GELRIA



Dugn.3620 province of Zeeland, mint of Middelburg 'peace negociations in The Hague'
OBV: warring armies on the frontline, IN CASTRIS CAVE AB OMNI REM MALA. 1607
REV. Three soldiers trumpet peace, NON EST COARCTATA MANVS DNI - ZELA coat of arms NDIA



1607 Dugn.3624 province of Holland, mint of Dordrecht 'no trust in the peace negociations'
OBV. Mercurius give the herb moly to Olysses in order to protect him against the wich Circe MENTEMQVE MANVMQVE - MOLY
REV. Soldier accepts a branch of peace NON TEMERE FALLITVR NON FIDENS chronogram S C

And for me (Siggi is back )