1829 Large Cent N-5 You Vs PCGS - Page 2

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Author	Replies: 22 / Views: 2,203	Page: of 2

vermontensium Moderator United States 16679 Posts	Posted 09/05/2022 7:23 pm I've got it at AU53 swcoin.ecrater.com Report this Post to the Staff
panzaldi Bedrock of the Community United States 18717 Posts	Posted 09/06/2022 10:11 am Quote: Strike should not count toward a grade, neither should toning. the four components that all graders use 1. surface preservation 2. strike 3. luster 4. eye appeal are you serious? do you think the only thing that counts toward grade is surface preservation and luster or are you saying they should eliminate these from grading? maybe I misunderstood your comment the coin in the slab looks closer to VF30. your coin is significantly better in all respects from strike, surface preservation and eye appeal. I also think you are correct about TPG grades and coin value. thats not right. the coin is what it is and shows as at least an XF45 coin. drop a grade from trueview and its a nice high end XF40. imo whomever graded this one did not have sufficient knowledge between strike and actual wear. Report this Post to the Staff
CarrsCoins Pillar of the Community United States 756 Posts	Posted 09/06/2022 10:55 am i dont know. I think its correctly graded. its a really nice vf. the other 35 has some red in the protected areas. its likely a technical ~20 with ++ surfaces and preservation. a 35 market grade isn't unreasonable for that. I might even pick that coin over this one if they were priced the same and I was in the market. id have to see them in hand to make that call. the third party grades arent technical graders. they do whats called market grading. they apply a grade that aligns with their appraisal of the coins financial value. its why they value au58 coins less than ms60. a technical 58 is beautiful while a technical 60 is a dog. I think they were correct to put this below the inflection point. its a really nice coin. you could call it a 50 if you wanted, but then all the nicer pieces would have to be upgraded to higher numbers and the price guide adjusted to reflect that new standard. and this coin would still be on the outside looking in. it doesn't have the luster or surfaces for to be one of the conditional rarities for the variety. one of the nice things about grading is that its subjective. its an art, not a science. a lot of people here are arguing that this coin is nicer than the holder. maybe send it to cac? or resub it to PCGS. might shop it to someone else who thinks they can get it to upgrade. if I were your potential buyer (im not) you would get the most money by having it raw. if I bought it id pop it out of that bulky holder. I keep my cents in envelopes and cotton liners. a lot of eac people do the same. Report this Post to the Staff
jacrispies Pillar of the Community United States 3848 Posts	Posted 09/06/2022 11:37 am Quote: are you serious? do you think the only thing that counts toward grade is surface preservation and luster or are you saying they should eliminate these from grading? When referring to a technical grade, yes I am serious. When you try to boost the value because of pretty toning by raising the grade, that is market grading, which is inaccurate when a grade is judging how a coin looks since it left the mint. If a coin had a strikethrough or clipped planchet, do you upgrade it, downgrade it, or give it the technical grade? It left the mint that way, so it should not affect the grade. Same idea applies to strike. If it was weakly struck from the mint, it should not be downgraded because that is how it left the mint. You may not agree with these standards. This technical system creates an accurate and consistent grading standard, with eye appeal being judged by the buyer. Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955 Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. Report this Post to the Staff
panzaldi Bedrock of the Community United States 18717 Posts	Posted 09/08/2022 11:58 am CarrsCoins - spot on jacrispies you may be correct in how you grade but that is not the case in the real world. the TPG's use all 4 components, whether its right or wrong. when someone here posts a coin for grading, they want to know how a TPG would grade it if it was submitted and CarrsCoins nailed it when it was stated that they do whats called market grading. they apply a grade that aligns with their appraisal of the coins financial value and why in multiple cases we have seen that a coin we would grade at MS67 they would grade as a MS66 or a + avoiding the 67 due to the price difference and possibly to protect and keep them in line with the top-pops which I completely disagree with. the coin is what it is regardless of previous graded ones. you may grade by any standard and maybe it works for you but in the collector world toning and strike count. not as high but they count. one area we can agree on is that a coin should be graded as it came from the mint so if a coin was weakly struck at the mint it should not be deducted for that especially if that particular year or mint is known for that. this does add an extra complexity to grading as most collectors cannot tell the difference between strike and wear or which years/mints were known weak or off-struct coins Report this Post to the Staff
jacrispies Pillar of the Community United States 3848 Posts	Posted 09/08/2022 2:35 pm panzaldi, I completely understand your perspective and the TPGs perspective. The real issue is consistency. There is no standard on what is pretty toning and what is ugly toning. If toning should affect the grade, then that creates even more inconsistency from the technical grade. The main thing driving the grade of a coin in market grading is price. If the coin looks spectacular, price goes up, and grade goes up. TPGs are now seemingly able to control the market and price estimates. The pros of the market grading system is that the entire value is held in the grade. One can look at the holder and get what they pay for (if the grade is accurate in the first place). The cons are that grading is even more inconsistent, and coin collectors don't need to do research on the coin they are looking at. People's opinions differ on what constitutes as good eye appeal. If the market interest shifts, now all of the graded coins are in inaccurate holders. Either way I personally focus on consistency and don't let toning and strike affect the grade to a great extent. I understand what the TPGs do and personally think it is not the best thing for the coin market in its entirety. Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955 Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. Report this Post to the Staff
panzaldi Bedrock of the Community United States 18717 Posts	Posted 09/08/2022 2:53 pm jacrispies it shouldnt be that way but it is what it is today. if I knew then what I know now I would have made way different choices in my purchases. just for disclosure I dont slab coins and only have bought a couple in over 50 years but I dont go by the slab grade Edited by panzaldi 09/08/2022 2:54 pm Report this Post to the Staff
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