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When Is A 3c Silver A 3c Nickel? 1866

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jimbucks's Avatar
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 Posted 02/04/2023  10:20 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
NGC graded it a 3C Nickel. CAC also stickered it and has it in their registry as such. Maybe I have a 1 of a kind!


When-Is-A-3c-Silver-A-3c-Nickel?-1866
When-Is-A-3c-Silver-A-3c-Nickel?-1866
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Alpha33's Avatar
United States
362 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2023  09:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha33 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
NGC graded it a 3C Nickel. CAC also stickered it and has it in their registry as such. Maybe I have a 1 of a kind!


Just goes to show, even the "professionals" make mistakes and shouldn't be given carte blanche.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 02/05/2023  09:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A double oversight like that is hard to believe!
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kbbpll's Avatar
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 Posted 02/05/2023  12:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Would CAC really reject it though, just because of a "mechanical error" on the label? It's not clear to me what their role is in a situation like this. It's an amusing labeling error, for sure. I recently ran across a PCGS MS58.
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ExoGuy's Avatar
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 Posted 02/05/2023  12:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These sticker errors have been avidly sought by dealers I've seen at shows. Some years ago, I saw two dealers at a FUN show who were displaying groupings of slabbing errors in their cases.

From what I've seen over the years, NGC tends to make by far the most certification errors. This REALLY makes me suspicious about their numerical grades. Making errors on coin types, dates, varieties and such is one thing and laughable at times, but a numerical error can potentially be quite costly! From my observations as a collector of exonumia, NGC is untrustworthy. Sadly, they tend to be the main TPG for exonumia.
Edited by ExoGuy
02/05/2023 12:30 pm
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Wan's Avatar
China
141 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2023  02:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe the coin of MS58 will not be labeled because it involves the condition haha
Pretty nice coin.Congratulations!
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kbbpll's Avatar
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 Posted 02/06/2023  09:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Over on the other forum you were worried if CAC would re-sticker it if you had NGC correct the slab. I'm curious why you would bother. Anybody who wants it for the coin knows that it's not 3CN, and others would be attracted to the label error.
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jimbucks's Avatar
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 Posted 02/06/2023  12:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
GC will not auction it in the current holder.
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paralyse's Avatar
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 Posted 02/06/2023  5:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
NGC has to correct the error at their own expense per their agreement and will give it the same numerical grade as previously assigned.

I'm sure that if the situation were explained to CAC they would reissue the bean despite the reholder.
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ExoGuy's Avatar
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 Posted 02/07/2023  04:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
CAC also stickered it and has it in their registry as such.


To me, this shows that CAC is just as worthless as NGC ,,,, Far more of a cash cow than a certification service. IMHO, what frauds! Apparently, BOTH 'services" seriously lack any measure of quality control. How on earth can two certification services BOTH make the same, so-called error? Seriously, did they even look at the coin? How can the numerical grade be trusted, when TWO services fail to properly identify the coin ? Appalling scenario, this ....
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 Posted 02/07/2023  11:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add apcol258 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Tell us how you really feel Exo lol. While this is a more obvious type of mechanical error, I agree. Who is to say a coin they labeled as MS65 was really graded MS62 and just input incorrectly. What's frightening is that a mistake like that would probably be more likely to happen, and not be noticed, than this type of error. I know you should buy the coin not the holder, but makes you wonder how many graded coins like that could be floating around out there.
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paralyse's Avatar
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 Posted 02/07/2023  11:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
To me, this shows that CAC is just as worthless as NGC ,,,, Far more of a cash cow than a certification service. IMHO, what frauds! Apparently, BOTH 'services" seriously lack any measure of quality control. How on earth can two certification services BOTH make the same, so-called error? Seriously, did they even look at the coin? How can the numerical grade be trusted, when TWO services fail to properly identify the coin ? Appalling scenario, this ....


A few mistakes out of millions of coins examined does not mean that there is a lack of quality control. Any enterprise run by humans will always have mistakes made at some point. Considering the constant disagreement regarding the accuracy of the assigned grades from the various TPG's, expecting them to perform flawlessly in the other aspects of the encapsulation process is wishful thinking at best.

Quality control is not perfect, either, otherwise nothing in our lives would ever need to be returned to the people who made it.

It is not (and should not be) CAC's job nor their responsibility to verify that the label is correct. Their job is to assess the condition of the coin relative to the numerical grade which was assigned by the TPG.
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"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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kbbpll's Avatar
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 Posted 02/07/2023  11:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm still curious if that's what CAC does. If it's a Morgan with " VAM 123" on the label, but it's really VAM 234, do they care, or do they just look at the grade and go A, B or C quality? If they didn't sticker this one, would they explain that it's not because of the grade, but the label error? I'm not defending CAC, I'm just not sure what their job is here.
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 Posted 02/07/2023  3:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hokiefan_82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
jimbucks, have you shared this on the CAC forum? Would be interesting to hear from them what their general policy is on items such as this.

I suspect it's as kbbpll describes, but if CAC ignores typos/mechanical label errors I can see some possible issues arising; for example, in the instance of a common coin being misattributed as a rare variety. I wonder if CAC would still ignore that?

Back to the NGC label error; several years ago I saw on ebay two modern commemorative dollars from two different dealers, and both coins were labeled by NGC as the wrong type (I think they were both Infantry dollars labeled as Army dollars). I notified the dealers, and one removed his listing, thanked me and said he'd be sending to NGC to get a correct label. The other dealer re-listed his at a higher price because it was a "rare label error"...
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paralyse's Avatar
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 Posted 02/07/2023  3:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
CAC exists only to provide an opinion on the grade as assigned by the TPG
It is not an error-checking or verification service to the best of my knowledge.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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