| Author |
 Replies: 15 / Views: 2,328 |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
6108 Posts |
So, sitting in a comfy chair staring at a high res photo of this coin, it is probably pretty easy to see that something isn't right. But now think of it in a plastic holder at a coin show and using a hand loupe under lousy coin show lighting. Well, it was good enough that a dealer who knows better actually bought it, stuck it in with his PCGS show submission coins, and then got the bad news. He gave me the coin yesterday for my collection. 1909-S Indian Head cent - counterfeit 2.88g    |
|
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
|
|
Moderator
 United States
34396 Posts |
Yes interesting to see. With the benefit of being an armchair quarterback, the rims at the margin with the denticles look wonky to me.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4618 Posts |
The counterfeits just get better and better.
Wow!
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!! 
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5393 Posts |
Disagree , that is a fairly obvious counterfeit if you study the series .
Almost appears to be a spark erosion , cast counterfeit.
Closely examine the reverse looks like file lines at
11 to 2 o'clock . S mint mark suspect .
Also raised bits on the rim .
Obverse grainy, almost sand blast portrait ,
lack of crispness in devices . Lumpiness in field .
The dealer should have caught this one!
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:
Disagree , that is a fairly obvious counterfeit if you study the series . It is an obvious counterfeit and if the dealer viewed it through plastic then spent $100 for show grading then shame on him. That's a low-mintage, high dollar piece. Probably close to $1,000 if genuine. You can't get lazy on stuff like that. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
I agree with all of Pacificoin's comments.
Lousy lighting at coin show does not help the dealer, who may very little time to spare from many other buy / sell activities.
The dealer should know, but I can understand how easy it is to make a mistake. I figure that the dealer did not check the weight.
Perhaps PCGS did.
PCGS says 'counterfeit false dies', but I would not dismiss the possibility of pressure centrifugal die cast. Easy enough to remove the casting sprue, leaving no clues.
This the sort of dishonest coin I would add to my 'dark' collection, for my own education.
But the very low price would have to be right.
.
|
|
Moderator
United States
15392 Posts |
Scary good counterfeit IMO
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
Raised dots all over (field left of the date for example, and on the date), high dollar coin - I would have been immediately suspicious. The reverse rim is hard to miss. We have the advantage of good images and hindsight though. I suppose making a quick buck clouds a dealer's judgement same as anybody else - not to sound insulting. Tough position to be in, since the seller walks out the door completely anonymous.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
6108 Posts |
What I've done in similar situations at coin shows is photograph the coin and sale price alongside the business card of the dealer selling the coin. I ask if they will accept a return if it comes back bad and they always say yes. But true, far better to take an extra couple minutes, find the right lighting, and be sure in the first place.
|
|
Moderator
United States
94892 Posts |
pretty 'nice' fake, the obverse does look very grainy, as if it was cast in a sand mold. ant chance of seeing an edge image?
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2365 Posts |
Definitely has that "cast" look to it.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2003 Posts |
The scary thing about this counterfeit is that in a low grade it might not have been discovered. Easy to tell in high grade that something isn't right with the graininess and file marks on the rims. We've all seen low grade Indians with pitting and corrosion. Imagine if it had been artificially worn down and re colored then placed in a counterfeit slab perhaps grading G-4 details. It would still be a high value coin and may even fool the best counterfeit detector.
|
|
Moderator
United States
94892 Posts |
Quote:
The scary thing about this counterfeit is that in a low grade it might not have been discovered. Well maybe not with this one anyway. I can see where the mold was assembled (I think) on the reverse, at the top of the reverse, there are remnants of where the metal squeesed out from the mold. |
|
Moderator
United States
187702 Posts |
Very interesting.  |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2757 Posts |
At least the weight is still off on these fakes. Weights of all keys should be checked if something even looks like it might be off.
|
| |
Replies: 15 / Views: 2,328 |
|
Posted 05/06/2023 8:34 pm
