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 Replies: 13 / Views: 615 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6506 Posts |
Hey guys, just started hunting nickel rolls, and I'm already stumped. I purchased and thoroughly read the Bowers guide to nickels. I've got the PCGS app and lots of sites bookmarked, and the grading standards seem pretty clear. Except, of course, that the real examples of graded and even sold coins do not seem to follow the guidelines! Case in point, the 1974-D Jefferson nickel (FS) on PCGS. Quite literally none of the three examples of MS65 and up actually have five unbroken lines through the steps. Two have nicks and mangled lines; one has a completely rolled bottom step. I confess that I don't even understand the MS65-67 grading of most regular Jefferson nickels. Many of their official examples look scratched, stained, or damaged into the AU grade. Several of the 1938-2003 examples of nickels appear as if Jefferson's face were marred with a screwdriver prior to submission. Even more confusing, the auction listings of sold encapsulated coins show a variety of surface damaged nickels, and full steps designations where you can clearly see the absence (to varying degrees) of five unbroken lines dividing six steps. This seems to be a major problem for submitting coins for grading. On one hand, you could waste a ton of money if your slightly scuffed coins come back as AU. On the other hand, there are clear examples of people paying shocking prices for modern nickels ($50+) that I would have considered as normal circulated strikes. So how do you really decide what's a keeper from the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s for Jefferson nickels? Not the rare varieties, low mintages, exceptions—just a solid specimen of a regular strike that goes into your box or folder for preservation and maybe grading. I apologize if this is covered elsewhere (and I will happily take links to previous posts). I took a crack with Google and came up empty for credible, consistent information. I know this forum fields a lot of Full Steps questions. I am more just trying to understand what's truly valuable because I can't reconcile the published grading standards with what the grading sites actually present as real, bought-and-sold examples on their own sites. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3207 Posts |
it's an example of "buy the coin not the slab" PCGS is the only TPG to (usually) deem that hits on the steps change the quality of the strike, something PCGS inexplicably does only for the steps on Jefferson nickels, but not for full bands on dimes, nor full bell lines on Franklin halvesinstead many Jefferson collectors follow the approach of Q David Bowers, who defined full steps as a measure of strike quality, something that cannot be changed after minting as a result, when looking for well struck Jeffersons I ignore PCGS step attributions, which for me ends up devaluing their slabs relative to those of the other TPGs |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3207 Posts |
also, steps are very tough to photograph, which exaggerates gaps, so there's no substitute for examining the coin with a loupe and angling it so the light can reveal whatever steps might be present
as for what's worth saving, that's up to you, what I do is keep two sets of Jeffersons, one with the highest grading coins, and another set with the most/best steps first, then highest grade as second qualifier
you will also find, particularly during the 1950s, there exist coins with full steps but a mushy obverse strike due to late die state, which for me rate below coins struck by early die states on both sides
after years of step counting and such, the Jeffersons I have come to most appreciate those examples struck by early die states on both sides, with their resulting sharp edged, crisp devices
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6506 Posts |
I can appreciate focusing on strike quality if the coins are going into your personal collection. For what it's worth, I also wouldn't turn down a nicely struck coin with deep features just because it had a few nicks or scratches on key highlights. I have picked out quite a few nice examples simply because I find them unblemished and pleasing to my eye. The broader question that I am trying to understand is one of liquidation. What I would like to do is sell any worthwhile coins that don't interest me, in order to finance the acquisition of coins that do interest me. For example, I am building a collection of bicentennial coins due to their sentimental value to me. But if I can't figure out grading and pricing for something as basic as Jefferson nickels, I am concerned that I will get swindled at dealers or waste money pointlessly on PCGS (or other firms). Probably I can't do much damage with nickels, but liquidating Morgan dollars, Mercury dimes, and silver coinage could make mistakes very expensive. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3207 Posts |
like any useful skill, one for coin grading takes practice to develop
one way to refine your skill is to visit this subforum from time to time, view the coins people post, decide how you would grade them, then scroll down to see the grades given by others
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6506 Posts |
Honestly, my temptation is to screen cap some of the PCGS and auction images, and see how people would grade them. But I know that reposting images we don't own would be against policy.
I think you've made a good suggestion. I will locate the Jefferson and Indian Head nickels on this sub forum, and see if I come up with similar opinions.
Also, I will post a few nickels that I've found in rolls, because then I can compare the opinions that people provide with a coin that I can examine under magnification.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2281 Posts |
By all means let's see these examples of these marred up Coins over graded, it isn't against the rules.
You realize when you know how to think, it empowers you far beyond those who know only what to think.
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6506 Posts |
I was sure that I read something in the rules about "only post pictures and content that you personally own", but now I can't find it. I will let this thread percolate for a day or two, and then return with some examples and maybe links to the source material.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
18665 Posts |
a couple comments on jeffersons. only a couple dates have any value for the most part until you get into mid-high MS grades for slabbing purposes. I would not spend the $$ to slab a jefferson unless I was sure it would come in at 66 or above for the most part. it doesn't pay unless your coins value is about $150 or more TPG's are not the end all be all in grading. many are undergraded and many overgraded. as for steps dont rely on slabbed coins. learn what a full 5-step coin looks like especially if you want to collect 5 or 6-step coins once your get to 66 every little flaw, mark, scuff detracts from grade jeffersons are not the easiest to grade due to strike issues particularly on the reverse if jeffersons are something you want to become familiar with and collect then continue doing what you are doing. learn as much as you can about grading them. post here, ask questions etc.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6506 Posts |
I think there are a number of virtues to Jefferson nickels. They are more convenient to roll hunt than quarters and halves, just by weight alone. Quarters also now have a bewlildering array of state and national varieties which seem impossible to keep up with. Dimes, quarters, halves have all been mechanically sorted to remove all silver coins, and by extension all older coins. It's still possible to find War Nickels and Buffalo nickels in circulation. Those little treasures make the hunt satisfying. Pennies seem to be completely about varieties, which involves going over every coin with a microscope. Nickels have some low mintages and varieties, but the interesting bits can be comprehended and remembered. Could I be persuaded to be meticulous enough to search out MS-FS examples for all years and mint marks? Probably not. But I think modern nickels are a worthwhile entry point to grading, acquisition, varieties. Starting with the more specialized stuff (like bicentennial coins) seems too narrow to really get involved in the hobby and master the fundamentals. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6506 Posts |
Ok, so a good example of where I am scratching my head: NGC 5989646-010 which is a 1979 Jefferson nickel MS65FS. The reverse image isn't super high resolution, but that sure doesn't look like five unbroken lines. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
18665 Posts |
Quote:
The reverse image isn't super high resolution, but that sure doesn't look like five unbroken lines. keep in mind that TPG's are not infallible. you will find that out here where numerous slabbed coins are shown to be under or over graded using the combined experience of hundreds of years here. we have a saying...buy the coin, not the holder. this is why its important to learn how to grade yourself and not rely on TPG's. you will see in most cases there is no reason to slab a coin |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6506 Posts |
Fair enough, but when people are buying off ebay or wherever, they are essentially buying the slab, not the coin, right? You can't get the coin under a loupe or microscope to check for yourself prior to purchase. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
18665 Posts |
Quote:but when people are buying off ebay or wherever, they are essentially buying the slab, not the coin, right? thats correct and the reason why, if the photos are not clear enough to determine if the slab is correct, then you are rolling the dice. typically a rookie move and a good way to lose $$ especially if there is no return policy. |
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Replies: 13 / Views: 615 |
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Posted 05/19/2023 10:21 pm
