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 Replies: 43 / Views: 3,691 |
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Moderator
 United States
6563 Posts |
Disclaimer: torch flame my cause slight burning sensation in extremities, chard skin, and in some cases death and destruction of everything you hold dear.
 I would not recommend Anyone do that under Any circumstances. Not only is it not safe to try but defiantly not safe if you were to suggest others try it too.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2254 Posts |
Quote:It will also include numerous links to help you better understand the hobby of collecting United States coins and paper money. The links are to other sites that write or teach about this hobby. Articles of all sorts will be displayed to make it easy for you to find the answers to your questions. You will find articles about Toning of coins "my favorite", errors, making, history, grading, collecting, counterfeiting, and much more. .Even a section naming people that sell fake toned "AT" coins on ebay. This is all to show everyone what I know, what I preach and what I love. Um, Simplycolors, isn't that what you have found here with this family? While I know your intentions may be honorable regarding your toned coin passion, CCF pretty much covers anything you will need. I wish you success in your endeavor to create your own site, but I don't think the staff and/or owners here will appreciate links to what could be described as a direct competitor in the future. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I think putting a torch to a coin and changing the color of the coin just makes you one of the perpetrators you are trying to out because no matter what you have changed the natural reaction of the coin to the elements that caused the toning and added heat to change the colors. I see absolutely no use to put a torch to a coin unless you are trying to tone a coin in the same way you say your site will out. Anything you do to the coin that wouldn't have happened if it was stored (like applying heat to it) is considered AT. speeding up the process is just as bad as sitting the coin in a container beside some sulfur powder in my opinion because if this wasn't done the toning wouldn't have occurred no matter if it has color when started or not you are still speeding up the process in a way that the coin wouldn't have been subjected to normally
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1882 Posts |
Quote:
I give some of my secrets but not all so I hope this answers some of your questions. Nope, it doesn't answer my question at all. Your test was potentially destructive to the coin. You posted a picture of a Gobrecht dollar that could be worth tens of thousands of dollars (or even over $100K), without any toning at all. It seems odd that someone would take a torch to that coin, or expose it to any other process that could ruin the coin. Edited by steve199
03/25/2009 4:20 pm
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Valued Member
 United States
61 Posts |
tights yes, I have this community linkes to also as the only forum to learn and chat about coins. The other links are for grading coins like what About good or BU stands for. Nothing competitive at all. Love this forum and would not do such a thing. GraceOutcast, I agree with you 100% I should have wrote that on that earlier reply. I don't recommend anyone to use this method for testing as it may cause burns and or even death.
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Valued Member
United States
61 Posts |
steve199 I never said I put a torch to that coin. Read more carefully to what I wrote. I put the torch to the NICKEL I show after those 2 coins. Bryan1315, This is only a method I "myself" to be useful to when I want to see if a coin is or is not naturally toned. As soon as the torch gets real close to the coin if it's natural the toning seems to run away from the flame and if it isn't then it does not change that's it. I only use this method when it is very hard for me to tell and if the coins is not very expensive!
I never said " oh go test it out yourself ". Found this method to be very helpful to me when I learned it from a very experienced collector and I will keep the method going until maybe you or another person with the experience or professionalism teaches or finds something better.
If someone doesn't agree with something don't do it. Even I am here to learn from others and have open eyes and ears. I don't want anyone to just go and do something not very smart. I want people to read what I've learned and done and keep on doing. I appreciate all of your comments and anger towards what I write about.
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Valued Member
United States
61 Posts |
steve 199, do you know how to tell when a coin is AT or NT? How many coins have you studied in hand to where you know if it is either of? I have seen and studied many coins and with my experienced friends which are also superior collectors of such coins share knowledge and determine what makes a coin be most likely AT. The Gobrecht dollar below is an example of a coin we determined to be AT. A display made by Jamie Franki at a coin design exhibition. The card reads as follows: "The Progression of Colors on Artificially Toned Coins The colors visible on these coins were produced by Thermal Oxidation, a process involving heat, atmospheric oxygen, atmospheric sulfur, copper and nickel. There are no pigments or dyes used. The colors are generated by a transparent oxide film grown on the surface of the coins. The thickness of the film dictates the color perceived as light passes through the film and is reflected of the surface of the coins. Similar coloration phenomena can be seen in naturewhen viewing a rainbow colored oil slick on a wet road or in the iridescent colors of some insects. The coloration on these coins is called "artificial toning". When coins are artificially toned through Thermal Oxidation, the progression of colors goes from the untoned nickel to yellow, gold, orange, reddish-purple, bluish-purple on to blue and ultimately grey as the film grows thicker. Not all of the colors of the visible spectrum are produced by this method. True red and green are not produced. Coins can also tone naturally over time from similar film formations involving sulfur, atmospheric gasses and moisture. Genuine toned coins have a more natural appearance and, when attractive, enhance the eye appeal and the value of collectable coins. Artificial toning, while sometimes attractive, often appears manufactured and does not add to the value of collectable coins except as a novelty. Often, artificial toning is done to deceive novice collectors by hiding signs of damage on the surface of the coin, and to add value. Therefore, coin collectors should learn to be able to recognize the appearance of artificial toning. One of the most effective means of learning to recognize artificial toning is to compare known naturally toned coins with known artificially toned coins as in this presentation. By handling a number of both over time you will be develop an "eye" for genuine color and the way it appears on the surfaces of coins. " Normally, an AT coins coloring does not change when going all around the coins rim. It tends to keep the same coloring with no shadowing through the change towards the center. Likely a NT coin will change colors with shadowing through the change towards the center of the coin. Blue being one of the most desired and most difficult colors to obtain in a coin specially silver is also to be taken into closer inspection. I hope this helps you a little if not more on how I study coins and how some people like me see toning. Example of what I call NT with same color all around the rim. Look closely changes and shadowing towards the center of the coin. Look closely at how the developed colors lay " on " the coin and not under. http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/...t=1238021125Now look at the back of the Gobrecht dollar. Look at how the toning avoids getting on the wing and how it hides under the letters instead of laying on the entire coin. Also, take a look at how the toning seems to splash in different directions. The luster is gone as if the coin was cleaned after the toning was done. http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/...t=1238021634Edited by simplycolors
03/25/2009 6:54 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2254 Posts |
Quote:
I appreciate all of your comments and anger towards what I write about. Fair enough Simply. Keep in mind, like I have told others in the past, the "anger" you refer to can simply be how you are reading a post when no voice inflection is involved. What I typically do is imagine the poster with a smile on their face, or someone I'm just talking to like a friend. It helps avoid what some may think is confrontational. That being said, one of our resident experts is Hadleydog, and he has a keen eye for NT vs. AT. I haven't seen him on in a while, so maybe he's taking a break. I know there were some previous posts around here regarding the subject. Especially one that notes colors that will automatically tell you that it's AT. |
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Valued Member
United States
61 Posts |
Thank you tights24, I don't see anyone as really "angry". I see it as me speaking of what I've learned and maybe take more in from them who agree and disagree with what I write. I hope I learn more from Hadleydog. I like taking any good information into this little brain of mine. Oh, I also tried contacting you to send you the link to the site I was working on so that you can see I mean no harm to anyone but was unsuccessful. I just don't know all the tricks to this forum yet but I will soon I hope.  Edited by simplycolors
03/25/2009 8:12 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1882 Posts |
Thanks for pasting in the information on artificial toning. Quote:
steve 199, do you know how to tell when a coin is AT or NT? Nope, I don't. That was the first thing I said to you on page 1. And I didn't say you took a torch to the dollar; never believed you owned that coin. Also, I made no claims about the toning on the Golbrecht dollar being AT or NT. Somehow I'm failing to make my point/question clear. My question has to with understanding the mindset of someone who would alter a coin that already VERY valuable. Seems the potential downside would outweigh any potential upside. Do these coin doctors enjoy 100% success in the AT process? Or does it ever fail, and leave an ugly coin? |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
Do these coin doctors enjoy 100% success in the AT process? Or does it ever fail, and leave an ugly coin? Yes, and yes.  There's always a sucker on ebay willing to buy an ugly failure.If you have the skills, though, you rarely "fail;" it's more a matter of knowing when to arrest the process. The wildly-colored fakes we all see on ebay are more the result of overdoing it than a process failure. Chances are the Gobrecht was deliberately toned in order to hide a previous dipping. |
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Valued Member
United States
61 Posts |
 ^^^ You are so right! Some coin doctors are so good that toning the coins are passed for grading with out been noticed. Hiding imperfections that would lower the grade and therefore graded to be sold with a premium. With more practice on studying them in hand you will start to notice how the process works. I am not perfect and sometimes still get fooled but do a good job at spotting lots of them. Anyone has a coin that might want to bring into the picture?  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Here's one . what do you think AT or NT ?   |
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Valued Member
United States
61 Posts |
Metalman, this 1921 Morgans are rarer when it comes to toning. I believe the 1921 morgans have a slight different metal content or something and that's why there aren't many toned 1921. The colors on your coin are very hard to see, it looks like it was scanned or something. If this is the way it looks in hand I would say it's AT. Here is a beautiful toned 1921 morgan sold by APMEXhttp://i483.photobucket.com/albums/...t=1238278868 |
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Valued Member
United States
61 Posts |
Edited by simplycolors
03/28/2009 9:28 pm
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Replies: 43 / Views: 3,691 |
First Page
Posted 03/25/2009 06:45 am
