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1975 Penny W/ Rotated "5" In The Date

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 Posted 06/10/2023  12:47 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add TedError to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Please give me your thoughts on this 1975 penny with the "5" in the date rotated 10+ degrees counterclockwise. Is this an error?
1975-Penny-W/-Rotated-
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Yokozuna's Avatar
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 Posted 06/10/2023  1:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It looks like the top of the 5 took a hit. The damage wasn't on the same angle as the 5 so it makes it look as if the digit is rotated. The digits of the date are engraved into the die and cannot move. No premium on this as it's not an error, just PMD.
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
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 Posted 06/10/2023  1:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nick10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
my first thought is Machine Doubling, that the coin twisted a bit as the die was lifting off it, there's a bit of doubling on the other digits too
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 06/10/2023  1:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think Yokozuna calls it.
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 Posted 06/10/2023  2:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TedError to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have to side with nick10. If the 5 took a hit it wouldn't hold its full digit shape like it has. The 5 might be slightly higher than the 197 and therefore the 5 hung on the die just slightly longer creating more of a rotating MD. Is that possible?
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-makecents-'s Avatar
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 Posted 06/10/2023  2:42 pm  Show Profile   Check -makecents-'s eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add -makecents- to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There may be some MD there but it would appear that is mostly damage to the 5, as Yoko said.
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ijn1944's Avatar
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 Posted 06/10/2023  3:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ijn1944 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm thinking circulation hit.
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nfine's Avatar
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 Posted 06/10/2023  3:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nfine to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm in the Yokozuna camp as well, top of the 5 took a hit.
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 Posted 06/10/2023  3:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@TedError I know what you mean, but the metal of digits and letters are known to shear and dislocate when they take a hit at the right angle. The entire date shows flattening. The 5 should be slightly higher that the other digits, as seen by looking at a 1975 cent with no damage. The flattened top of the 5 shows where the metal was before it was forced down and slightly to the right.

I took your image and did a 'side by side' comparison to an image of a MS-68 RD from PCGS Coinfacts. Both coins came from dies prepared from the same master hub used in 1975, with a VERY slight chance of having been struck with the same obverse die. The large difference in thickness, shape and metal location had to come from a hit to the top of the 5, in my opinion.

Click the picture for a larger image.
1975-Penny-W/-Rotated-
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
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Dearborn's Avatar
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 Posted 06/10/2023  4:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm going to go with Damage, the top of the 5 took a hit, there is also circulation flattening to work with here also.
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 Posted 06/10/2023  4:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TedError to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yokozuna thanks for the good date photo. I am going to have to have my kids do some overlays. There is still something unusual about that 5 and it even looks more obvious with the two photos. Give me some time with the kids:).
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Dearborn's Avatar
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 Posted 06/10/2023  6:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK I edited your original image to put the top of the 5 back to where it was before it took a hit. Tell me what you think.
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 Posted 08/04/2024  08:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mpoeddie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have the same "wide 5". I don't believe in coincidences especially with coins. The top of the 5 you can clearly see was pushed on both my and the OP's coins, the circular part is static and the spread on the tail from the first strike is visible as it's own entity, it is not connected to the tail of the later strike. This is a mint error.


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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 08/04/2024  09:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is definitely damage.



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Seeker_101's Avatar
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 Posted 08/04/2024  09:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Seeker_101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ mpoeddie: The bar of the 5 on your coin has clearly been moved as can be seen in the stretching of the metal. The 2nd tail of the 5 that your refer to looks more like a die gouge. If that were a 2nd tail, then it would significantly raise the 5 higher which would be impossible without also raising the other digits of the date. This would give clear separation of all digits and be a very nice doubled die.

Would it be impossible for 2 coins going through a mechanism such as a Gumball Machine to have the same type of damage?

This is PMD in my opinion.
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Tacc's Avatar
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 Posted 08/04/2024  10:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tacc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with damage/circulation hit here. I have a 1945 with pretty same appearance that I first thought was an error.
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