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1959 D WRPM-003 MMm Or Ufo?

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Dutch-Tigger's Avatar
United States
301 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2023  10:18 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Dutch-Tigger to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Greeting , I have been away for some time but am glad to be back to enjoy the reading of posts and taking in the expert advice and knowledge that is shared here as well as lend some helping comments and shared knowledge of my own to those whom are here to learn what it is they are seeing through the loupe!

I wanted to share a unique and somewhat controversial coin with everyone, and to try to pass on to the newbies just how much goes into attributing coin Errors and Varieties.

It is not some smoked filled room that guys get together and look at coins people sent in and readily decide to put a Attribution listing for them, especially when it come to "Varieties" I posted this coin because I believe it is one that can demonstrate just how involved the organizations and the people involved go to great lengths to determine what a coin has or has not in terms of Errors or varieties, this coin has a history of sorts that reflects this.

So many people post coins here and other coin forums declaring they have found a "New Variety" or Error only to find that they have a coin with common die cracks and chips etc. and 99% its PMD, MD, DDD or platting issues etc.

The folks here who help us with our questions have so much knowledge and experience with this subject and I hope will make comments concerning this coin condition, history and the
controversy tied to it far better than I can.

At one time C.O.N.E.C.A had it listed, but at some point de listed it, now I`m not wanting to re hash it`s standing as to what it is or not but to try to convey the people new to collecting how it is not so cut and dry, and when you see on coin forums or on ebay or alike "A NEWLY DISCOVERED ERROR" or Variety stated by someone new to this is simply not aware of Die and coin making processes or how the Numismatic Organizations operate concerning Attributions.

1959-D-WRPM-003-MMm-Or-Ufo?
1959-D-WRPM-003-MMm-Or-Ufo?
1959-D-WRPM-003-MMm-Or-Ufo?
There appears to be an errant and totally separated D punched into the lower 9
1959-D-WRPM-003-MMm-Or-Ufo?
Not all die variety specialists agree that this is an RPM variety with some arguing that it is some form of damage.

1959-D-WRPM-003-MMm-Or-Ufo?
An overlay by Billy G. Crawford shows that the suspected errant mint mark punch does conform to the shape of the D mint mark

1959-D-WRPM-003-MMm-Or-Ufo?
John Wexler lists this variety as WRPM-003. The variety is also certified by ANACS. It is listed by Charles Daughtrey as 1959D-1MM-021, but his website listing implies that he is undecided about it status.
The viewers will have to orm their own opinions regarding this variety, especially if a purchase is being considered.

I was given this by my father as a High School Graduation present, he didn't say nor did I ask where he obtained it , I was ecstatic to have it for my collection and bragged to other collectors gleefully , but after the years went by so did the status of its place by some Organizations. Again I just want to convey to you new to the hobby just how rare and difficult it is to find a new "RARE ERROR" or Variety and how equally difficult it can be to have it Attributed and keep it`s place in line.

I would appreciate any comments and information one may have from being exposed to this Variety..or maybe this coin should go int the realm of being an U.F.O.... NO! not that kind.. A Unidentified Fascinating Oddity !
Edited by Dutch-Tigger
06/18/2023 10:19 am
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-makecents-'s Avatar
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8750 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2023  10:36 am  Show Profile   Check -makecents-'s eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add -makecents- to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice example of this die. I've seen this before but am not very familiar with it. In the short few years I have been searching and learning Lincoln cents, I have seen certain listings overturned by the general consensus of our professionals. In these cases, there is usually much study done and looking at many examples in different die states, to come to these conclusions. I'm usually on the outside looking in but have been fortunate enough to be involved with some studies and is very interesting to see how things slowly unfold.
I look forward to hearing others thoughts on this particular die though. Thanks for posting this.
-makecents-
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Dutch-Tigger's Avatar
United States
301 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2023  10:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutch-Tigger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for that and very interesting, I hope the images are satisfactory for I am getting use to some new Optical equipment
I purchased for coin examination and photographic capabilities.
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John1's Avatar
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 Posted 06/18/2023  11:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dutch-Tigger,
As to your photos. Your close ups look distorted,stretched and the full coin pics have a bit too much glare and maybe a bit out of focus.What is your set up?
John1
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Dutch-Tigger's Avatar
United States
301 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2023  11:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutch-Tigger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yeah I had to work the pictures down to fit this forum, they are quite big files I used elsewhere. But my lighting too is something I need to work on as well.
I have a Trinocular Stereo Zoom Microscope
7X-45X Super widefield continuous zoom magnification
9.0MP Camera.
in the original form I posted them with grand applause, I need to find the right combo on this forums photo needs to make it right.

1959-D-WRPM-003-MMm-Or-Ufo?
1959-D-WRPM-003-MMm-Or-Ufo?
1959-D-WRPM-003-MMm-Or-Ufo?
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Dearborn's Avatar
United States
96071 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2023  1:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well this is an interesting cent. It would appear to be the same die here, It even has the same die dent at the rim.

Ok, now to play Devil's Advocate for a moment, is it possible that the mark under the 9 another die dent as well? Could this be the reason that C.O.N.E.C.A. withdrew it's attribution?
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Dutch-Tigger's Avatar
United States
301 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2023  1:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutch-Tigger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Are you referring to the coin on screen with my scope? if so sorry for any confusion that is my 1955-S S/S/S FS-01-501, It was on screen at the time when I took these shots to show the scope.
I was told by a State rep for C.O.N.E.C.A the reason of de listed is partly the census amongst groups and the interest just fading as it happens in the Cherry Pickers Guide from time to time.
I is a curious item that for one would expect the Punch to reach the bottom of the 9`s cavity unless otherwise have to believe the punch was held at an angle preventing this. IDK Sir lol
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Dearborn's Avatar
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 Posted 06/18/2023  1:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm referring to your Images 5 (color) and 6 (B&W) of your top post, not of your scope set-up of the '55.
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Dutch-Tigger's Avatar
United States
301 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2023  2:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutch-Tigger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gotcha! yeah this has been addressed but with the overlay it still gives I think the grey area of "might be a Misplaced mint mark " with some like Wexler and alike, but C.O.N.E.C.A is holding the ground of caution against the wind. And This is my point I wish and even hope that you folks new to this hobby do consider what
fiery hoops coins go through when a consideration for a Attribution is on the table. So always consider older coins as being well searched for Varieties/Errors. Modern coins is another story.
This is one U.F.O for sure.
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John1's Avatar
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 Posted 06/18/2023  2:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a fancy scope so should be able to take and post some great photos. Maybe some of the photo experts can give you a few tips.Maybe post a question in the photo section.
John1
Edited by John1
06/18/2023 2:06 pm
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Dutch-Tigger's Avatar
United States
301 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2023  2:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutch-Tigger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes John1 and thanks, it`s been very nice for the extreme close shots, my lighting is going to be a journey to find the right setup with. This is not something that mere mortals with a normal 9-5 job may afford.

In my humble opinion I believe most should turn off their Digital scopes in place of a quality loupe. Unless you know a lot and I mean a lot about Die, Hub and Coin manufacturing processes you should not do coin searching with a scope. JMHO
I would love any advice to become better with this system from anyone whom has experience over me.
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Cujohn's Avatar
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7174 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2023  4:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cujohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To me that mark looks like the vertical of the D turned 45 degrees to the right. I don't see how Crawford's image even looks like a mint mark.
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Dutch-Tigger's Avatar
United States
301 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2023  4:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutch-Tigger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@CuJohn, when I first looked at this coin after receiving as a gift from my father I immediately took the view of the anomaly as a D`s aspect at 45 degrees as you mentioned, and this is what I had in my mind for the longest time until I read about the Crawford
overlay. It was not easy to compute this in my mind for some time but let it go as " they must know more than I" after all I was only 18 at that time. I`m glad you brought this up sir TY.
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silviosi's Avatar
Canada
6244 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2023  5:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice this RPM. I never find but it is on my list to have. Crawford was great on figuring out those.
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Dutch-Tigger's Avatar
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301 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2023  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutch-Tigger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Silviosi, I am as proud now as was when first placed into my collection.
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silviosi's Avatar
Canada
6244 Posts
 Posted 06/19/2023  6:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hope you slabbed.
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