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Opinions About 1863 Cent Requested

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Pillar of the Community

United States
1910 Posts
 Posted 06/19/2023  4:31 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I'm not familiar with flaws that could be mint errors or just plain damage on US coins. Compared to a normal coin, the C looks closed and the A looks filled.
Ordinary or common?

Opinions-About-1863-Cent-Requested
Opinions-About-1863-Cent-Requested
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 06/19/2023  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Guessing these are die chips/broken post.
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robbudo's Avatar
United States
2757 Posts
 Posted 06/19/2023  5:51 pm  Show Profile   Check robbudo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add robbudo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agree with die chips, but for a full opinion, we need to see a full image of each side of coin.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1910 Posts
 Posted 06/19/2023  6:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are both sides.
Opinions-About-1863-Cent-Requested
Opinions-About-1863-Cent-Requested
Edited by Albert
06/19/2023 6:17 pm
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 06/19/2023  6:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cool coin, likely cleaned, but I've not seen one similar before.
Edited by Coinfrog
06/19/2023 6:10 pm
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kbbpll's Avatar
United States
4233 Posts
 Posted 06/19/2023  10:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There's a similar one in the PCGS photo gallery, AU58. Not the same die though, as the date position appears to be different.

Opinions-About-1863-Cent-Requested
Pillar of the Community
United States
1910 Posts
 Posted 06/19/2023  10:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you so much for that great find!
Seeing similar letters on a different coin!
The comment about the date I'm sure is right on.
I have two coins dated 1863 in about equal condition.
One item I found during a comparison is that the dates were not in the same position.
I'm going to try to post two images, one having transparency.
When overlaid, the dates are not aligned.
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robbudo's Avatar
United States
2757 Posts
 Posted 06/19/2023  11:00 pm  Show Profile   Check robbudo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add robbudo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've been collecting IHC errors for 35 years, and feel this is on the border of qualifying as an 'odd die variety' on https://www.indianvarieties.com/pag...type=product I'd go ahead and submit the pics and see what happens.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1910 Posts
 Posted 06/19/2023  11:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are the transparency / Opacity overlay pics.
It was hasty and done lacking super critical care, but the results do show.
These are two separate coins with red lines for alignment.
one pic shows the top coin and the other shows the bottom coin.
The profile and legend are in good alignment, but the two dates are slightly apart.
Opinions-About-1863-Cent-Requested
Opinions-About-1863-Cent-Requested
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kbbpll's Avatar
United States
4233 Posts
 Posted 06/20/2023  01:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The dates were punched into each working die so there will be a lot of variations in the placements.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1910 Posts
 Posted 06/20/2023  11:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I first posted this coin 10 months ago asking for opinions.
Since then I have been working through a large lot of other acquired questioned coins.
I finally arrived at this 1863 cent, bought an authentic coin for comparison, did the testing, made the photos and created the pages for the binder.
Here's how the questioned coin compares to the authentic coin purchased from an excellent dealer that I have had good experience with for some years:
Both have the same diameter 19.05mm, thickness 2.15mm and weight 4.725 grams. Both have the same Specific Gravity of 8.915
To be honest these numbers are not truly exact. They're rounded for simplicity.
The true weight of the questioned coin is 4.7251 grams and the other coin is 4.7248 grams.
The other dimensions do have slight deviation of +/- 0.01 or +/- 0.02 or so measured here & there around the coins.
I wanted to show in the binder that the questioned coin is not different because if it were a counterfeit (as the seller presumed) then something should be obviously different.
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kbbpll's Avatar
United States
4233 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2023  01:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm confused. What is this "questioned coin"? The one with the filled A? If it's related to the overlays you posted, you're not going to get much from an overlay of a good counterfeit since they've merely made a die from a real coin.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1910 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2023  04:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I acquired two Indian Head cents, 1863 and 1890 from a dealer junk box.
The holders were labeled as "counterfeit".
I collect counterfeit coins and most times they really are and readily confirmed.
But sometimes some people think they have counterfeit coins, sell or give them to me, but they are mistaken.
I write them up that way in the binders whenever I come across such coins.
My "questioned coins" are coins that the previous owner either had doubts about authenticity or they believed them to truly be non-genuine for whatever reasons they had.
I am presently working on a three coin lot with two holders labeled as "authenticity?" and one labeled as "imitation?".
Telling me the former owner had doubts, and since I collect such coins, I bought them for my hobby.
Edited by Albert
06/21/2023 04:20 am
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