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Large Roman Silver . Attribution And Authentication Help Please

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Pillar of the Community

Italy
1130 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2023  06:50 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Roma2021 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I'm unable to find or authentic this one... I wasn't able to weigh it but it felt ok in hand... it is likely around 30 mm in diameter... I didn't see obvious fused planchettes; hard to tell if it is rim wear or fused.

It is a bit bubbly and I have never handled a large roman silver to compare.

Any thoughts?


Large-Roman-Silver-.-Attribution-And-Authentication-Help-Please


Large-Roman-Silver-.-Attribution-And-Authentication-Help-Please


Large-Roman-Silver-.-Attribution-And-Authentication-Help-Please
Edited by Roma2021
06/26/2023 07:48 am
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34393 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2023  11:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The bubbles and soft features are very concerning to me too.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Pillar of the Community
Italy
1130 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2023  11:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Roma2021 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@spence... I passed on the coin. Too much incentive to fake this one.

Any chance you saw the two unknown and possibly unknowable pieces I posted under other threads?
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34393 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2023  12:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah sorry but I'm definitely not an expert on buttons. You should check back now and again though as sometimes these things take some time.

I'm quite sure that this current piece is purporting to be Roma/Greek so will move this thread to the ancients subforum.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Pillar of the Community
Italy
1130 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2023  12:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Roma2021 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks @spence.

Sorry. I thought I put this in the right section.
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circusmax120's Avatar
United States
319 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2023  1:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add circusmax120 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am in no way an expert, Roma2021. There is simply something off about the specimen. Especially crude in many ways. The gap in the dotted edge element is strange. Not only are the tiny voids troubling, but also the appearance of (what appear to be) stress fractures on the reverse. As if the coin had been stamped or pressed. A weight and clear edge pic would offer some beneficial information.
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
United States
7066 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2023  1:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is the source for the obverse, apparently:
https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=l...=971&lot=450
Pillar of the Community
United States
1045 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2023  4:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Biancasdad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The edge picture is a bit blurry but it kind of looks like the remnants of a casting seem that's been filed.
Pillar of the Community
Italy
1130 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2023  5:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Roma2021 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I couldn't get a good look at the coin. The seller sells at a market and has had good stuff before...
He described this as a roman colonial...I'll take a better look in two weeks but I'm pretty convinced it's a fantasy fake.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16806 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2023  7:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nobody in Roman territory in Gallienus' time was making large silver coins. For any reason. The silver denarius itself had disappeared, replaced with the "double denarius" which was in fact by this time made of essentially zero percent silver.

Roman Provincial silver, as a whole, is largely unknown outside of a few select locations such as Egypt, Caesarea-in-Cappadocia, Ephesus and Antioch. Silver coinage issue was an Imperial prerogative, rather than under local council control as with bronze coins. You're very unlikely to find Roman Provincial coins in Italy, silver or bronze, in an archaeological context, as they would not have circulated there at all, so a random street vendor isn't likely to stumble upon one.

Finally, here is the bronze coin this was copied from: a provincial of Gallienus from Synnada in what is now central Turkey.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
Italy
1130 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2023  03:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Roma2021 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks @sap. The fake coin I saw seems to be a direct copy of this coin. It fits the diameter and likely the weight.

The market where I buy a lot from is called "porta portese". I live about 100 meters from it. It is the largest non-food market in Europe and some absolutely crazy stuff appears at it. Nonetheless, you're right. This coin is a fake of that bronze.
Thanks for your help.
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