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1953 Wheat Penny With Multiple Variations/Errors

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John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 06/29/2023  6:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can't wait to see where this goes ,but I have a pretty good idea
John1
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 Posted 06/29/2023  7:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jinxtheomen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What Causes Cuds on a Coin?
As a coin die continuously strikes coins in the coining press, the tremendous pressure used to mint coins causes stress on the metal coin die. Additionally, the friction on the surface of the die from striking the planchets causes the surface of the die to deteriorate. Combine these with a variety of other factors and a coin die can become damaged through normal usage. Eventually, all coin dies will deteriorate and fail in one way or another.

Additionally, the metal collar that holds the planchet centered above the anvil die can sometimes move and get struck by the hammer die. If a die has been in the coining press for a while and has experienced the stresses of coining for a while, a piece of the die can break off. This breakage will leave a damaged coin die that will produce a Cud.

In the early years of the United States Mint coin dies were made by hand and were very expensive. Therefore, they were used in the coining press until they deteriorated or produced such low-quality coins that they were no longer deemed adequate to strike coins. Therefore, many early coins have Cuds on them because the mint employees were trying to extend the life of the die for as long as possible.

Modern minting processes allow coin dies to be mass-produced and they are significantly cheaper than the early coin dies of the United States Mint. Therefore, at the first sign that a coin die is showing deterioration or stress cracks, the die will be retired in a new die used in its place. This improved quality process has resulted in fewer Cuds appearing on modern coins. Retained Die Breaks
As a coin die begins to break, the piece of metal may not immediately separate from the coin die. The crack in the die will leave a ragged and raised defect on the surface of the coin. If the break extends from one edge to the other, it may start to work its way towards the outside of the coin before it detaches. This die defect will leave a weak image of the design on the Cud.

These retained die breaks leave the unique "fingerprint" on every coin it produces. Numismatic authenticator sometimes use these imperfections to identify genuine coins or to prove a coin is a counterfeit. For someone who posts a lot, you sure don't know your stuff.
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Dearborn's Avatar
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 Posted 06/29/2023  7:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hey, save some of that popcorn for me too.

This is a contest of the 2 "know-it-alls" - one that really does, and the other that thinks they do.
Can somebody please generate a program (pamphlet) for me to follow?
Edited by Dearborn
06/29/2023 7:16 pm
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bobby131313's Avatar
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 Posted 06/29/2023  7:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
jinx, you just repeated everything I told you but with 50 times more words and you stole it from somewhere. Mine was in my brain.

None of this applies to your coin. it's still not any kind of Cud at all.
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Cujohn's Avatar
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 Posted 06/29/2023  7:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cujohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll bring the beer.
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 Posted 06/29/2023  7:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jinxtheomen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well you should start with doing more research instead of just your brain. If you can't see from the pictures and from the links I posted, proving it's a Retained Cud, there is no hope for you to learn, instead of, "it came from my brain".
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bobby131313's Avatar
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 Posted 06/29/2023  7:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, anyone else want to try?
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 Posted 06/29/2023  7:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dowhat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jinxtheomen, first of all, let me welcome you to the CCF.
Quoting the late late, great, Frank Zappa, "The mind is like a parachute, it only works if it is open." That could not be more true when it comes to numismatics.
It is good that you have obviously done some research on your own before posting on this forum. The difference lies in how one interprets that information to reach a conclusion.
Without a reasonable amount of knowledge concerning the process of making coinage, one can easily be mistaken in their interpretations of the possible events one might encounter in their endeavors.
That is where this forum gets you on track. The combined years of knowledge accumulated by those here being kind enough to to look at what you have and offer opinions are directed toward those with an open mind, willing to learn and benefit from their years in the hobby.
Your choice of a username here right away indicates a somewhat closed mind. The ego can be worse than a Crack habit.
That being said, if you believe what you have presented is indeed is extraordinary and the find of a lifetime, by all means, keep it in your safe and pass it on to your heirs so that their futures will be assured due to your foresight.
Or perhaps, pull the rip cord instead.

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bobby131313's Avatar
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 Posted 06/29/2023  7:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll tell you what jinx, you send this coin to PCGS or NGC and if it comes back as any kind of Cud, I'll reimburse you 100%. Now you have absolutely nothing to lose... unless of course I know more than you.

Your move.
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Dearborn's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 06/29/2023  7:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
off center strike - not a cud:
1953-Wheat-Penny-With-Multiple-Variations/Errors
a die crack - you can see the start and end of the crack (blue arrows), and the main part of the crack (red arrow) - not a cud - but it IS a Pre CUD:
1953-Wheat-Penny-With-Multiple-Variations/Errors
Die clash on the reverse - not a cud:
1953-Wheat-Penny-With-Multiple-Variations/Errors
Retained Interior Die Break (RIDB - not a Cud (not touching the rim):
1953-Wheat-Penny-With-Multiple-Variations/Errors 1953-Wheat-Penny-With-Multiple-Variations/Errors
A Cud - Yes, this is a CUD:
1953-Wheat-Penny-With-Multiple-Variations/Errors

Edited by Dearborn
06/29/2023 10:11 pm
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 Posted 06/29/2023  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jinxtheomen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I appreciate the welcome, Dowhat. I don't however appreciate you insulting my user name by degrading it to childish behavior. Especially with a name like "Dowhat". I understand the process of making a coin, the pictures provided by Bobby were one example of a die that is chipped. He also stated Cuds can only be present on the edge of a coin, (showing a picture of penny with a Cud on rim) . That is but one example of a Cud. I provided a picture, with a definition of a Retained Cud, which is another example of a variation. Bobby failed to realize while insulting my post, he failed to follow proper definition and description entailment. Example when he said a Retained Cud always goes from wall to wall. Which in my post, proves him wrong. I can go on and on, but it seems I'm getting no where with any of you.
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John1's Avatar
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 Posted 06/29/2023  7:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jinxtheomen,
Of these three third party graders which one do you respect? PCGS-NGC-ANACS
Send your coin to them and please post a full slab photo front and back when you receive it back in the mail. Thanks.
John1
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bobby131313's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 06/29/2023  8:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Like I said, you send this coin to PCGS or NGC and if it comes back as any kind of Cud, I'll reimburse you 100%. Now you have absolutely nothing to lose... unless of course I know more than you.

Send it off tomorrow, fastest turnaround, highest level. Scratch above, I'll reimburse you DOUBLE the total (shipping, insurance, fees, everything) if they say its any kind of Cud on the label.
Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 06/29/2023  8:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dowhat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Where are the walls on this coin?
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nickelsearcher's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 06/29/2023  8:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsearcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting thread indeed - a newbie calling Bobby a troll while showing dubious evidence of some sort of error.

I look forward to read how this ends - I suspect Bobby will come out on top.
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art
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