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1809 Half Cent (Not Mine)

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Adam590's Avatar
United States
751 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2023  6:50 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Adam590 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
What do you think of this 1809 Half Cent as a type coin? I appreciate your opinions.


1809-Half-Cent-Not-Mine
1809-Half-Cent-Not-Mine
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pristine2's Avatar
United States
1048 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2023  7:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pristine2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pretty coin. Uneven strike. Cleaned, I'm pretty sure, probably to remove verdigris.

There's some star detail left and that usually warrants XF or better, and the visage is nice and crisp (even AU coins can have more flat on the underside of the eye). But there's hair detail missing that most XF coins have.

The reverse is a conundrum. The wreath is so very well punched, yet the denticles are very weak.

I guess I'm at XF (details).
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paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 08/03/2023  02:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd pass. Cleaned. AU details. The residue from the cleaning is still visible inside several of the letters, and is responsible for the halo effect around the stars.
Lots of nicks, and a couple of harder hits (left of S9 obv, left of N rev, e.g.)


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"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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panzaldi's Avatar
United States
18649 Posts
 Posted 08/03/2023  2:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i dont like the glare in the photo. its almost like someone is hiding what the actual surfaces look like. i'd like to see it in natural lighting. obv weakness. classic heads can be a little hard to find that dont have some type of planchet issues to due how they were handled and shipped here. i'd call it XF/AU details (cleaned) without better photos

i guess if you are considering it you need to think of a couple things.

1. can I return the coin when I see it in hand
2. is the price right for a cleaned example
3. do I want a cleaned example in my collection or wait for a better example.
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Adam590's Avatar
United States
751 Posts
 Posted 08/03/2023  3:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam590 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks so much for the feedback. Yeah, I was thinking I want to pass on this one because I don't love the lack of detail, even if it is a weak strike--it is in a PCGS MS(62) BN holder straight graded, offered by the dealer Frisco Mint/Early Cents. Maybe the pictures are bad and the coin looks so much nicer in person, but I am sure there are far better specimens in a similar price range than this one.

Thanks so much for looking at it. There is a reason why I just had to have that 1794 cent after seeing it once and this 1809 Half Cent just made me ask questions.
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paralyse's Avatar
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12057 Posts
 Posted 08/03/2023  7:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Frisco is a very reputable dealer, and I've bought quite a few coins from Lucas myself, but unless the photos are absolutely terrible, I'm not seeing a MS coin.
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panzaldi's Avatar
United States
18649 Posts
 Posted 08/04/2023  09:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
w/paralyse that obv is not saying MS to me where it looks like circulation wear all the way from the eye down to the bottom of the bust. I think in this case is buy the coin not the holder holds water
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jacrispies's Avatar
United States
3848 Posts
 Posted 08/04/2023  09:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jacrispies to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This coin looks very original to me. I was at AU-58 or MS-62, but the obverse rub is a little too much so I settled for 58. Great luster, great surfaces.
Suffering from bust half fever.
Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955
Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves.
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paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 08/04/2023  9:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The junk buildup inside the date numerals and Half Cent on the reverse is either residue from cleaning (Copper Cream, e.g.) or worse it's verdigris or some other metallurgical/chemical process which should have been properly treated and conserved prior to being slabbed.

The cheek, highest hair curls above the headband, and the hair that crosses over the bust -- the highest points on the obverse -- all show signs of light wear. The reverse wreath leaves and ribbon bow also show light wear on the highest points.

If I were going to pick a hill and make a stand on the difference between cleaned AU copper and natural Uncirculated copper, this coin would be a hill I'd fight for. My opinion is that this is an AU coin with an old cleaning that was given a TPG bump and the benefit of the doubt.

Please note that this is my opinion of the coin based on the photos provided, and of the TPG grade, not of the seller. Again, the team at Frisco Mint is both respectable and highly knowledgeable when it comes to early copper, and my opinion should not be taken as a slight against their business in any way.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse
08/04/2023 9:43 pm
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NumisEd's Avatar
United States
5177 Posts
 Posted 08/04/2023  10:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumisEd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let's see the entire holder.
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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
United States
36684 Posts
 Posted 08/06/2023  12:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some wear on the high points. AU-58.
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