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 Replies: 16 / Views: 1,416 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
959 Posts |
Looks like somebody tried to tool around mouth and nose and scratched the coin at the same time. No idea why anyone would do that to this coin - a shame. I made a very lowball bid on this and unexpectedly got it. 30 day return. What's a coin like this worth?   Edited by Blastenpene4
09/02/2023 08:19 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
I don't think it's tooling, just PMD. Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
959 Posts |
I'm looking at how closely it follows the line of her chin and mouth - hardly seems random. Haven't been able to figure out what die variety it is - lots of them for 1851. Coin appears to be MS to me, but what's a reasonable retail price for this with this damage? I got it surprisingly cheaply.
Edited by Blastenpene4
09/02/2023 10:05 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Just looks like damage to me as well.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3162 Posts |
looks like MS detail but has some dark spots that look like verdigris or early corrosion. More on reverse. Might have been dipped in something that removed toning to get rid of reverse stuff. Hard to value a coin like this.
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
18673 Posts |
I'm not convinced its tooling either. with the marks under the nose I can see something nicked the coin in that area. coin would probably details do to the entire area around the mouth and cheek as these are key areas and marks/scratches take on a little more significance in grading.
I'm going to say UNC details
as for value thats a tough call on a details coin. it comes down to what someone is willing to pay. its not real bad so i'd say half of retail. maybe $100
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Pillar of the Community
United States
959 Posts |
I'm well below $100 (a little more than 1/2 that) - thanks for the opinion. I think this is an MS coin - RB. Rim shows something that looks like a strike imperfection at 3 on both obverse and reverse; it looks like possibly a rusty die (?). I'm curious to inspect it in hand. Seems like a keeper for the money, even if I just use it in a trade in the future.
Edited by Blastenpene4
09/02/2023 10:47 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11896 Posts |
ms61 maybe 62rb
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
09/02/2023 1:42 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1048 Posts |
Hit or miss on whether they detail it. I've seen worse coins straight-graded, and better coins detailed.
If it were me assigned the task, with that gash on the cheek, I'd detail it. Significant hit to eye appeal.
I'd also have to call that flatness around the ear wear, not a soft strike, because the rest of the punch is so strong. But it is very faint, and ambiguous enough to keep the coin nominally MS.
UNC details.
As for its unslabbed value, maybe $40 wholesale, $60 auction, $85 full retail.
Edited by pristine2
09/02/2023 9:31 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4680 Posts |
Surfaces do not look original, color is not natural. I'd actually lean towards AU58 details, cleaned, but a TPG will likely say UNC Details. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2281 Posts |
Why do you take so many chances and buy these knowing they're problem coins just to return them?
You're a sellers nightmare.
You realize when you know how to think, it empowers you far beyond those who know only what to think.
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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Pillar of the Community
United States
959 Posts |
Let me make a couple of points. I keep about 3 coins for every one that I return. The main reason I return a coin is because the pictures (either intentionally or in error) conceal some flaws. The dealers who seem to regularly have coins that are misrepresented go on a list of dealers I won't do business with again. It's rare that I return more than one coin to a dealer, because I won't buy from them after making a return for inaccurately pictured coins - once bitten, twice shy. Sometimes I do return coins due to my own inexperience in evaluating them from pictures. I've always appreciated the feedback on this forum in that respect.
The safest path is to buy only slabbed coins that are good examples and pay retail for them. To me, a big part of the hobby is the hunt. When you hunt you take chances - part of the game for both seller and buyer. This coin was fairly and accurately represented by the seller, warts and all. I have bought several coins from this dealer. I paid $61, which I felt was a very fair price. I'll keep this one.
Edited by Blastenpene4
09/03/2023 09:11 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
18673 Posts |
i like your approach blast. you really can't get a good assessment unless the coin is in hand. if all your paying is shipping both ways then its not a big loss.
if the coin details I think its a good price. if it grades straight then you stole it
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Pillar of the Community
United States
959 Posts |
I think there's no way this grades straight. I went into it with a lowball bid that I wouldn't have come up on with that in mind.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2281 Posts |
Yes that was clear from the photos it wasn't going to straight grade, so why waste everyone's time yet again.
Your ratio is abnormally high.
Regardless of your reasons, you like to have your cake and be able to eat it too.
Always having the opportunity to return a coin in your mind, you never learn your lesson.
You realize when you know how to think, it empowers you far beyond those who know only what to think.
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
Edited by NumismaticsFTW
09/03/2023 2:35 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
It does look tooled around the lips and chin. They weren't very good at it. I would not have bought it regardless of price because I'd never be happy with it. The image clearly shows what you we going to get.
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Replies: 16 / Views: 1,416 |
Posted 09/02/2023 09:57 am
