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To participate in the forum you must log in or register. | Author |
 Replies: 6 / Views: 798 |
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Pillar of the Community
 Australia
2511 Posts |
Hi all, I presented this coin on CCF earlier this year http://goccf.com/t/442222 and thought I had an attribution of sorts with John V. However, on the World of Coins forum, after a lengthy investigation, I was given the following response from the respected resident byzantine expert. " The consensus of multiple collectors is that while the Helios 7 coin has the fabric of coins prior to the Cantacuzene Civil War, the below coin (aka yours) is a modern fabrication based on similar type of coins found on Ebay." I have to comment that to my eye, it doesn't seem to be typical of a "modern fabrication" but I do respect the opinion of others far more experienced in byzantine coins than myself. I have inserted the comparison coin (top images) and my own (the crusty one) below. Luckily the 5 coin lot it came with only set me back around AUD30, so no real harm done, and a giant money spinner for the fabricator. Description Ancients John V Palaeologus (1341-1391). BI tornese (17mm, 0.82 gm, 12h). NGC (photo certificate) Choice XF 4/5 - 3/5, edge bend. Thessalonica (?). Standing figure of John V holding cross scepter and globe / Patriarchal cross, stars at each end of crossbars, base flanked by B - B (the left reverted). Sear --. DOC --. LPC --. Unpublished in all major references and possibly unique! Dark gray "find" patina intact, edge somewhat bent. Ex Helios 7 (Munich, 12 December 2011), lot 190 (realized 2,000 euro hammer). HID02901242017 Keywords:john v BI tornese palaeologus unpublished  The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5172 Posts |
I guess it could be one of the Emporium Hamburg fakes, like this one? I agree I wouldn't have suspected it either. |
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Pillar of the Community
 Australia
2511 Posts |
Interesting read on that Emporium Hamburg fakes link, thanks for providing it J1M.
I wonder, if as Spence has mentioned, I should give mine an acetone soak.
I had toyed with the idea of treating it like an uncleaned ancient roman, and carefully dig away at the "build up". I guess I have nothing to lose numismatically.
The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
Edited by ttkoo
10/16/2023 04:03 am
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2511 Posts |
I had better send off a request for Numista to remove my entry from their database, so it doesn't helps to perpetuate the myth.
The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
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Moderator
United States
34397 Posts |
Quote:
I wonder, if as Spence has mentioned, I should give mine an acetone soak. Yep that seems like a reasonable next step. Sorry to hear that you have picked up a stinker. "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2511 Posts |
Quote:
Yep that seems like a reasonable next step. Sorry to hear that you have picked up a stinker. No damage, you live and learn. I gave it a good acetone soak and a gentle wipe over with a q tip - the tip was heavily stained brown.... and copper green. No noticeable change in physical appearance. Throwing caution out the door, I had a bit of a pick with a sharpened bamboo skewer. Lots of flake and crumbling removal, different to an uncleaned roman giving up it's secrets, this seemed more like clay, or perhaps a plaster of some kind. The reverse (B) side has lost a large proportion of it's sharpness, however, there is definitely metal underneath, though it would appear to me to be heavily corroded. And dare I say it, I am seeing silver here and there like a silver wash. The closer I look, the more it looks cast.  The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
Edited by ttkoo
10/16/2023 9:50 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2511 Posts |
12 minutes in an ultrasonic bath, de-mineralised water and a little Lux flakes detergent. Lots of the 'clay' came off the emperor side, exposing more of the silver underneath, and then that comes off too. On the B side, and the rim crack on the emperor side, there is unmistakable brass coming through in places (arrrowed). Actually finding more interest in exposing the truth than I did searching for attribution.   The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
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Replies: 6 / Views: 798 |
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Posted 10/16/2023 04:02 am
