1902 Indian Head Cent / IHC New Pics...care To Try Again ?

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Author	Replies: 10 / Views: 1,277
InfiniteInterest Pillar of the Community United States 673 Posts	Posted 04/04/2009 11:17 pm While working at the shop a couple weeks ago, Ed showed me a few coins he had set aside for different reasons, this one was apparent right away. There is no lettering on the Obverse of this coin, only the Indian and the date. As far as I can tell, there are no marks whatsoever to indicate the removal of the letters and no indication they were ever there.I don't see any evidence of a strike through either, however unlikely that might be. I have never seen anything like this, maybe someone here has. Any and all thoughts on this coin are appreciated. EDIT: O.K. Fresh pics tonight. Coin weighs in at 3.0g. I also weighed several other circulated IHC's and they all weighed 3.0g or less, except one that was XF/AU came in at 3.1g. I can not really see any areas that would indicate some kind of tooling or abrasion.I am not sure you could remove that much metal and still get a 3.0g weight on this coin, the AG coins I weighed were 2.7g and 2.8g The damaged area on the right lower obverse is a bit suspicious, but the rim is also damaged right about 5 o'clock in that area, Makes me think it is just that- a damaged area- unintentional. I could be wrong...that's why I am here Thanks for looking again ! This really is the fun part of collecting ! ....IMO Damaged or not...I have never seen one quite like this ! Coop, I am not really seeing any weakness in the feathers, at least no more than a G-4 IHC would have ? I do see some flow lines/polish lines near most of the feathers though. Not sure which they might be. In the full obv pic you can just see the rim damage near the bottom right, sorry the scope has a limited field even at lowest mag. The rest of the pics follow the clock starting at 9o'clock. 9 O'clock 10 O'clock 11 O'clock 12 O'clock 1 O'clock 2 O'clock 3 O'clock This is the 4-5 O'clock area with the damage, the rim damage is in the bottom left corner. Edited by InfiniteInterest 04/09/2009 9:23 pm Report this Post to the Staff

jayceeg Valued Member United States 114 Posts	Posted 04/04/2009 11:27 pm Very interesting. I'll be following this thread to see what people think. I have no clue Report this Post to the Staff
numismo Rest in Peace United States 3039 Posts	Posted 04/05/2009 02:16 am Might be that the letters were removed and then the coin subjected to artificial wearing to smooth out the surface. Report this Post to the Staff
copper nickel daddy Pillar of the Community United States 2224 Posts	Posted 04/05/2009 05:25 am Could be an extreme case of a grease-filled obverse die. Happens frequently to Lincolns. Report this Post to the Staff
Jim Archibald Valued Member United States 198 Posts	Posted 04/05/2009 08:41 am Hi guys, question, have you weighed this coin? If the lettering was removed, it'll be underweight. If it's a filled die, it will be full weight. The head seems worn but correct, so I don't think it's a mule with a CWT obverse. ~ Jim Report this Post to the Staff
vermontensium Moderator United States 16679 Posts	Posted 04/05/2009 10:59 am Quote: Could be an extreme case of a grease-filled obverse die. IMO, I doubt that. All the conditions would have had to be perfect to have this happen. I believe the coin has been altered by someone with tons of time on their hands. Again, just my opinion. Would love to hear others opinions. swcoin.ecrater.com Report this Post to the Staff
InfiniteInterest Pillar of the Community United States 673 Posts	Posted 04/05/2009 11:08 am I must have had a brain fart since I did not even think to weigh this coin....I will be doing so the next time I work at the shop (If I remember) I will post weight results and any other things I can find out about it Wed night after work. Thanks for your opinions. EDIT: I probably should have posted this under the error and variety forum..sorry bout that- it has been awhile ! If any Mod would like to move this to the E and V forum, I would appreciate it. Edited by InfiniteInterest 04/05/2009 11:21 am Report this Post to the Staff
DVCollector Bedrock of the Community United States 10045 Posts	Posted 04/05/2009 2:26 pm Quote: IMO, I doubt that. All the conditions would have had to be perfect to have this happen. There should be a trace of the devices, because it's not like dirt has the same density as die fields, and could be completely flush under intense pressure--planchet metal would push into these areas, ever so slightly. Granted, the coin is worn down to VG, but it shouldn't wear off all traces. I would put this under a scope and look for struck surfaces in the devices. If that's missing or there's minute tooling marks that might confirm a post-mint job. By Snow's attribution guides, there isn't a record of a 1902 IHC missing the obverse legends. Report this Post to the Staff
foundinrolls Pillar of the Community United States 3507 Posts	Posted 04/06/2009 12:35 am I also think the coin was altered. The odds of a Grease Filled Die effecting all the lettering and leaving the date alone is fairly slim. I say that because any grease or debris that thick toward the edge of the coin would have to effect the date area. Many Indian cents were machined for various reasons. Thanks, Bill Report this Post to the Staff
coop Bedrock of the Community United States 62064 Posts	Posted 04/09/2009 6:19 pm The tips of the feathers being weak is an indication that something was done with this coin. There were careful no to disturb the rim, but tampered with it. Report this Post to the Staff
foundinrolls Pillar of the Community United States 3507 Posts	Posted 04/10/2009 12:00 am Actually the closeups show a great deal of evidence of tooling of some kind. The one that strikes me most is the one with the Indian's feathers and all the deep scratches. The difference in color of the toned metal in the area where the letters used to be indicates that the metal was removed and the coin retoned as it aged. It also does not show the signs of having been Struck Through Grease. The first two points made in this point though clinch it for me. The coin was definitely tampered with in some way. Thanks, Bill Report this Post to the Staff
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1902 IHC New Pics...care To Try Again ?