Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
300,000 items to help build your collection! Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Specializing in Modern Numismatics








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Hoarding Copper Cents, Question

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 1,220Next Topic  
Valued Member
Davest's Avatar
United States
325 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2009  06:17 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Davest to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
On another forum I visit, there are folks that hoard U.S. copper cents for the metal value. I don't understand the reasoning for this as I was under the impression it is illegal to melt said cents down for the metal value.

Am I mistaken?
Pillar of the Community
ErrorCoins222's Avatar
United States
1699 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2009  08:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ErrorCoins222 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Actually, I was just thinking of the same thing, and I was going to ask this question on here last night but I didn't. Even though I think they are illegal, I still hoard them and I don't know why.
Valued Member
Jim Archibald's Avatar
United States
198 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2009  08:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim Archibald to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Right now this is true, however they are betting that at some point in the future this will change. If say the Lincoln Cent was eliminated, and the price of Copper was up, there would be no reason to keep this law on the books. ~ Jim
Moderator
Learn More...
John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2009  08:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am a hoarder ,i have about twelve boxes and counting. I am saving them for several reasons; I am hoping the value of copper will go up (way up); I am wondering if the copper LMC will have a value similar to the LWC do now; and since I roll search for errors and varieties any way, why not keep the coppers?
John1
Pillar of the Community
coindexter's Avatar
United States
869 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2009  12:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coindexter to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with John. The so called bullion price ($1.97LB) of copper makes them worth more then a cent and the 59-82 years are getting harder to find in VG/BU/red condition because of hording. And this will drive the price of them up also. I think copper is going to be where silver used to be. ($3-4lb range soon) They will need a lot of copper to make the green items the government is talking about. (windmill generators,solar panels and allot more electric cars). A good example is a 1921 Morgan is only worth bullion in most cases and also cannot be melted but we all will be able to trade it if we run into tough times. Remember ya cant make bullets with borrowed(stimulus)paper money also remember the steel cent in 43? In 1944 and 45 they melted the left over bullet casings to make cents with. I also think the cost of mining copper will make the copper prices go up soon. I don't believe the gov. is going to lift any melt ban tho. Unless they benefit from it of course. If ya hoard em all now and they decide to melt all them cents now the ones ya got are a lot more rarer. I just bet some small town recyclers is most likely throwing in a bucket or two in the furnace when no one's looking.OUCH there went that 1969DD . LOL
Bedrock of the Community
biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2009  12:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
A good example is a 1921 Morgan is only worth bullion in most cases and also cannot be melted

You are free to melt all the 90% silver(and 40% and 35% for that matter) coins you want, there is no prohibition on that- just modern circulating cents and nickels. The face value of clad coinage exceeds metal content value by a significant margin so you would lose money melting them
Valued Member
Jim Archibald's Avatar
United States
198 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2009  12:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim Archibald to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If I recall, everything was going into the smelting pot back in 1980, from common date Morgans all the way down to Silver clad Keddedy's & Ikes. The only legal prohibition is for Cent's and Nickel's being melted for metal content and that's a fairly new law. The big meltdown of the last recession actually added a little spice to numismatics. It decimated certain common date coins from series like Franklin half dollar's, creating new keys. Problem being it takes many years to figure out exactly what was affected and to what extent. ~ Jim
Pillar of the Community
nod2003's Avatar
United States
3294 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2009  12:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nod2003 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Does the nickel melt ban include the silver ones?
Moderator
Learn More...
John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2009  12:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would think not,only current circulating coinage would be banned from melting.
John1
Bedrock of the Community
Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2009  6:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I don't understand the reasoning for this as I was under the impression it is illegal to melt said cents down for the metal value.

Am I mistaken?

No you are not mistaken, but back in 1964 til 1972 while the silver coins were still in circulation it was illegal to melt down the silver coins as well. That law was passed to try and keep them in circulation. (For one reason because the Fed had machin for separating out the clad from the silver so the government could recover the silver. The longer they could keep them circulating the more silver the government could reclaim.) Naturally it didn't work, people hoarded the coins and after the melting law was rescinded the coins over the years have been going to the smelters at a nice profit to the hoarders.

Today the cent is in the same boat. When copper went to four dollars a pound it was reaching the economic break point at which it would be worthwhile to "mine" the circulating coinage for copper. (Nickel at $20 a pound had already passed that point.) Even zinc was at the "bullion" value point. The mint faced the possibility of BILLIONS of coins suddenly disappearing and having to be replaced quickly. But the mint was already operating near capacity. and every replacement coin not only being made at a loss, but also disappearing into the same black hole.

So the law forbidding the melting was passed, and research began into replacement materials for both the cent and the five cent. The law didn't stop the hoarding but it did slow it down since people didn't see the possibility of a quick buck with no smelters buying. This bought the Mint some time. Then the economy started turning down and the metal prices dropped. If they had continued going up I'm sure we would have had new copper plated steel cents and steel five cent pieces, and the Fed would have had machines sorting out the copper cents and the nickel five cents just like they did the silver in the 60's. Then once the number in circulation made it no longer feasible for the Fed to recover them, the no-melt law would have changed because it would no longer be needed to protect the circulating coinage. Just like back in 72 with the silver.

But some people believe that it is only a matter of time before the metal prices go back up. So they are building their stockpiles while they don't have to compete with the Fed, and waiting for that day in the future when the no-melt law disappears.


Quote:
Does the nickel melt ban include the silver ones?


Quote:
I would think not,only current circulating coinage would be banned from melting.

Actually the law DOES include banning the melting of the War Nickels. Why? Because rather than trying to specify date ranges or compositions so as to only target the copper cents an the coppernickel five cents, they simply wrote the law in an all-encompassing manner and banned the melting of the one cent and five cent pieces. That also protects the copper plated zincolns as well, but it does mean that the silver War Nickels are also illegal to melt now.
Edited by Conder101
04/07/2009 6:12 pm
Bedrock of the Community
BadThad's Avatar
United States
19931 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2009  6:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It may be illegal to melt, but it's not illegal to hoard. The price of copper will rise again someday. It's not a matter of IF but WHEN. It doesn't really matter if it's ever legal to melt them or not. Copper cents will exchanged at melt value amongst speculators and collectors.
Lincoln Cent Lover!
VERDI-CARE™ INVENTOR
https://verdi.care/
  Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 1,220Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.3 seconds to rattle this change. Forums