1823/2 Capped Bust Dime Large E's Jr-3

Sorry to disagree with the majority, but this is a handsome F-15 with an old cleaning (but there is a chance it might straight grade depending on the mood of the grader at the time). Personally, I prefer the scarcer JR-2 (R4), but this is still a nice example where all the reverse lettering is clearly defined.

When it comes to grading bust coinage accurately, one often needs to take into account the die characteristics and striking quality of that year or variety. This example is nowhere close to VF-30 or VF-35 as some others have guessed. The most obvious deficiency is the heavy wear on the upper facial features and the hair above the eye down to the ear. Other places where the wear is heavier than a typical low VF coin include the jawline, the front left drapery, the clasp (which is usually well struck on most 1823s), the mid curls as well as the 10 o'clock to 11 o'clock denticles.

The reverse is consistent with a VF grade, so in determining whether to assign F or VF, the obverse and the obverse alone must be considered, and in my opinion it is just a bit shy of VF-20.

Reivers_Jewels...one should. however, tell that to PCGS and NGC. rarely do they take strike quality into consideration. they may add for a stronger strike but so many cases we have seen the knock the coin for wear when in reality it was strike.




I'm going to disagree with you on some of your points for the grade you assigned. which is ok since grading is quite subjective. I think the areas you are pointing out as wear such as on the upper facial features and the hair above the eye down to the ear.and the front left drapery are more raised on the die which require more pressure to force the die into the metal. imo these areas are more prone to weakness than wear. although I do agree with you that some is due to wear. check the denticles on this one. from K8 to K2 you are seeing quite a bit of weakness compared to K3 to K8. draw a line from K8 straight to K2 and notice the details below and above that line including the date

typically wear is about even on both sides. its more rare to have a F15 side with a mid VF side. therefore I attribute a lot of the obv to strike. just my opinion.

you see this a lot on bust halves as well where the TPG's nail coins several grades when a good portion of the coin can be attributed to strike.

VF-25. I see this much closer to a 20 than most here who think it is closer to XF

VF details. I don't think that the obverse areas you point out are due to die rust. It looks like remnants of solder for an loop or attachment to make the coin into a button or pin. It also looks like the coin is cleaned, more prominently in the reverse which would be the side that is showing if worn as a pin or button.

It also is a little cringy that you are handling the coin by touching the obverse and reverse with your fingers. That transfers oils from your fingers to the surfaces of the coin altering it, usually in a bad way. It is a good habit to hold coins by their edges.

Thank you for the extra pictures, as they make it more clear what is wear and what is weakness. I have been convinced to change my original opinion to VF-25. The different lighting definitely helped.

Thank you for your differing opinions, @jacrispies and @panzaldi. I definitely did subtract too many points in the areas I pointed out. By "die characteristics" I really just meant the typical amount of weakness on a given die variety, whether due to the die or the strike. After comparing with more JR-3 specimens, the most recent pictures do seem to align better with weakness.

And @panzaldi, yes the TPG should take into consideration weakness, but I definitely agree that this ideal does not always happen! I am sometimes pleasantly surprised by their treatment of the draped bust series, where strike weakness was even more prevalent.

(Also since I'm still relatively new to the site, I don't know how to reply to a quote; apologies.)

Thank you NumiStu, Panz, Jacr amd Reivers for the feedback.

NS, I wish I had a scope to share better pics as I'm quite certain it is not solder. I leaned away from corrosion/ED as I think if it was that it would not be as isolated to what amounts to very tiny raised spots on the coin. Looking at it with a 14x loupe, it looks much like the examples Ive seen online that exhibit die corrosion with what look like micro blisters.

After looking at this long and hard, I also lean away from the assessment that it has been cleaned. Of course we will never know the story behind this piece.

I figured I might catch a little flak for the handling. I was having a moment of "I don't care" when trying to get some clear pics, but thanks for the reminder.

Jacrispies, I do agree that it looks like a few protected spots with luster remnants.

I'm surprised no one mentioned the state of the large die chip on liberties neck. I've not seen an example below EF that didn't have this die chip severely worn down.

Someday I plan to send off my California fractionals and some other gold coins to PCGS for authentication, when I do I might send this along just for kicks and giggles.