| Author |
 Replies: 19 / Views: 4,780 |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
Since it is unlikely that many members collect counterfeit Cap and Ray Mexican 8Rs - I thought I would list an auction that I won recently. The coin pictured is the Riddell # 274B. It is a variation on the standard die pair that Dr. Riddell discovered in circulation. This is a common counterfeit in both German Silver and Debased silver - but this particular coin is a copper strike. It is the second example that I have run into. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...m=8398273872 |
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1262 Posts |
Having counterfeit coins is illegal here so I only have a couple of "altered dates" coins. Have been looking for some "funny" $2 coins that I hear are being spent here in aussie land but as yet have not come across one. Very nice coin you have swamperbob.  |
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
5362 Posts |
Most counterfeits are illegal here too but there is a provision in the law that exempts non-legal tender items. The Mexican 8Rs were demonetized by law in 1857, so they fall outside the provisions of the law. This one is shown in a book published in 1845 - so it is a Contemporary Counterfeit. It would be illegal to make one today or to import one into the USA but if you can show that they were in the US before the law took effect in 1973 you essentially have no problems.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
bm1947 - I caught one last year. A 1997 genuine 2 dollar coin:  A 1997 COUNTERFEIT 2 dollar coin:  |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
gxseries - looks like a transfer die copy - one of the typical technologies used by modern forgers. They usually have degraded images (fuzzy). That one would fall into the "illegal" category. A second copy of the coin I originally posted was sold on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...m=8400243482That particular one is a "white metal" copy possibly a German Silver. It is common when compared to the copper versions. |
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
Indeed, any coins are under the scrunity of being counterfeited. All of the Imperial Russian Commemorative coins are known to have been counterfeited.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1262 Posts |
gxseries....lucky bu**er.
Also I understand new batch being peddled around at the moment dated 2003.
Looking for those as well buth they are being found around Sydney/Newcastle.
Edited by humpybong
04/03/2006 11:09 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
Thanks bm1947. Will take note of such coins. Usually such coins are pulled off by the authories so that they hardly circulate. The reality is, to own a counterfeit coin is not too much of a problem, BUT to try to use such coins as a legal tender currency is a real problem.
|
|
Forum Kid
Kuwait
1523 Posts |
I have no clue on Counterfeit, esp WOrld Coins, I need help!
How can someone make out?
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
Most modern counterfeits can be spotted if you know what an original really looks like and how it was made. So, my advice begins, learn everything you can about the coin you want to collect. How it was made and what it was made of? How big should it be? What should it weigh and how thick should it be? What is on the correct edge? Were the dies hand punched - engraved or hubbed? Was the press a hand press - open or collared? Then you compare what you are offered with what the coin is supposed to look like. Get a good scale that can weigh the coin and compare weights. Check the diameter with a good scale. For more variable coins - say those struck without collar dies the diameter can be less useful. Read up on counterfeits in any one of the many books available. Larson's book is great. The problem with many counterfeits is that the forger did not use the same metal as the original. Since metals have different Specific Gravities you can measure the SG and see if it is correct for the type. Sometimes weight will be correct but the thickness or diameter will be altered. Get to know the ring the coin produces. More modern forgeries are often made with more correct metals. To diagnose these you need to know how dies were made and how coins were struck. Most counterfeiters use transfer dies so the image will be about right in general but the details may be off. The details may be soft or blurred. The fields may not be smooth. They have problems with the edges. Knowing the correct edge and how it was applied can daignose many forgeries. On ebay it is harder because you have only a scan. So how do you do it? You have to trust the seller - where is he located - what is his feedback. If the seller is in a place like China and he keeps his feedback private and the bidder identities are private be very careful. But beyond that common sense is your best weapon. Rare coins are not sold cheap. A bargain that is too good to be true usually is ...... Each of these short paragraphs can be expanded almost endlessly. So finally - ask questions. It is the best way to learn. |
|
Valued Member
Canada
480 Posts |
In Canada we are getting some coins with similar loss of detail, but they are not counterfeit- instead they have spent too much time inside casinos. The edge reeding gets worn down or off, and the images on both sides get very degraded. We have had a few examples of $1 coins being conuterfeited fairly recently.
|
|
Valued Member
United Kingdom
104 Posts |
I found one today! atleast it looks like one its the wrong colour and has lost some detail and the rim sticks out on one side.. its dated 2002
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I noticed neither of them ebay auctions had in the description that they were counterfeit, I know when you sell a US coin (never sold a foreign coin) you have to agree that it is genuine before you can post it. Do you not have to do this with foreign coins on there? |
|
Pillar Of The Community
Turkey
1205 Posts |
I don't think there's any problem as long as you state it is a counterfeit.
then you must guarantee it is a genuine counterfeit:)
I have two or four counterfeit 1 YTL coins, they are obvious, they are magnetic, their center brass part is odd, they do not have reeds at the edge.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
To Bryan1315 - ebay prohibits all counterfeits so I would guess that the presumption is that you are guaranteeing it is real and not counterfeit even for foreign coins. However that said, ebay never seems to stop Evasion issues or Blacksmith issues or even Counterfeit Bust Half Dollars. Those three categories are all published and therby they have been "legitimized". The ANA seems completely fine with collecting those "Counterfeits", but not Mexican counterfeit dollars issued at the SAME time. Then there are the "Unauthorized Issues". That is a totally different and political issue. The legally made but not released 1933 $20 Gold Coin is illegal but the illegally made 1913 5 Cent V nickel is legal and worth a fortune. Why? How about the recently discovered counterfeit micro O Morgan dollars? Will they be declared illegal? We need one CLEAR standard for all - not just the politically connected or popular issues. To RenaL - I agree with you. I have bought many coins called counterfeit that turn out to be mishandled originals. Also Modern Numismatic Forgeries are not "Counterfeits". Most collectors divide the two categories. Coins meant to circulate as money at FACE value would be counterfeits. Coins meant to fool Coin Collectors are Numismatic Forgeries. The first are collectable the second are junk. |
|
Valued Member
United Kingdom
104 Posts |
i have found another! its in bad condition and I have compared it with actual ones same date and it has the wrong inscriptions!
|
| |
Replies: 19 / Views: 4,780 |
Posted 04/02/2006 10:43 pm
