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 Replies: 17 / Views: 952 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
654 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8731 Posts |
Possibly a clash from one of the large "E's" from the reverse? It's the correct size.  -makecents-
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
73706 Posts |
Nice BIE.  Errers and Varietys.
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
10484 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
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Moderator
United States
94795 Posts |
I would not call it a BIE as the B and E are not connected. - but Makecents has a good thought on a possible clash.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4036 Posts |
Nice BIE. It is listed in Cohen as B159. The horizontal die gouges below LIBERTY, and the die crack connecting the 9 and S, are the key markers. Cohen considered this a full BIE, but I don't see it fully connecting between the B and E so IMO it should have been listed as BA159, an "associated" BIE. It is the last stage of a 5-stage progression that she listed. It is also listed on Cuds on Coins, and is the 5th listing from the bottom of the page here: http://cuds-on-coins.com/ldb4-1955s-2/Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at: http://macrocoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8731 Posts |
Quote:
The horizontal die gouges below LIBERTY, and the die crack connecting the 9 and S, are the key markers. The "die markers" are listed as die scratches in the BIE listing, this is a nice way to put "I don't know what they are". Those are something more than die scratches, they are perfectly in line with each other and of considerably near perfect thickness to each other. I may not be right about what they are but they are not die scratches. The two "block" looking things under the B and E are not die cracks either, also possibly tied to my clash theory, There are die cracks below these block looking things, that more than likely cause the cracks but not cracks themselves. Think a little for yourself, Ray and take another look. -makecents-
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Moderator
United States
94795 Posts |
ok whatever... just looks like 2 separate die chips to me, but what do I know?  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8731 Posts |
The majority of my conversation was about the two lines at the base of the bust that are angle perfectly with each other.  -makecents-
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4036 Posts |
I do think for myself (and it gets me in trouble sometimes!), which is why I say they are "horizontal die gouges". I also don't like that Cohen called this a full BIE, when I don't see the two chips connecting in the middle.
The two die gouges are unique in the Lincoln series AFAIK, so I don't see these being caused by a clash. We'd see these on other dies if it were caused by clashing.
I guess the clash theory is meant as a potential explanation for BIE's? The mint saw BIEs happening for many years before this, and in 1956 changed the size of the letters in LIBERTY as a potential fix for the problem. It didn't help. The position of the B and E are right about where the metal flow changes from outward to inward, so that spot is sort of a dead zone for metal flow, and thus there is no place for the metal under tremendous pressure to move from there. This is the most likely cause of the BIE phenomenon, and why it happens there more than in other places in LIBERTY. I would not discount the possibility of a die clash adding to this problem. For sure it would not be just for this one BIE, but for all.
Pretty much anything that shows up between the letters of LIBERTY ends up being called a BIE. Even die cracks across multiple letters. The only things that are not called BIEs are filled letters. This is a historical detail that some folks disagree with, but it does simplify things and is the standard adopted by CoC based on Hardy.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at: http://macrocoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8731 Posts |
Alright, Ray, let's forget about the things right below the B and E for just a minute. The main reason I even brought them into the conversation was the two "lines" beside the base of the bust. They are not die scratches and may even be tied to other things going on, that is what I was trying to say. As far as BIE's go, you know way more than me.
-makecents-
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4036 Posts |
Far as I know those die gouges are just that...die gouges. They are unique identifiers for this particular die, just like many other seemingly random die gouges end up being identifiers for other dies. I don't know if they are tied to something else like a clash or other phenomena. I had not thought much about the possibility of a clash causing (or contributing) to these weird phenomena we see, but for sure I will keep an open mind about it.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at: http://macrocoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8731 Posts |
Alright then....
-makecents-
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Moderator
United States
94795 Posts |
thanks for the additional information above. (I got stuck on that not being a BIE (still am) and missed the die gouges Jon pointed out.. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
538 Posts |
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Replies: 17 / Views: 952 |
Posted 07/13/2024 12:44 pm
