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 Replies: 24 / Views: 2,212 |
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Valued Member
United States
58 Posts |
Edited by CoinNut
06/01/2009 10:16 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3077 Posts |
got a link think ya can figger which one I voted for
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2520 Posts |
I have very little doubt that they were obtained in a shady fashion. (Probably traded out coin for coin with those intended to be melted and purchased by the jeweler) However, at the very least they should be sold and the money should be split with the family.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
The Government lost them, they'll lose them again.
Give them to me, I'll keep one and have 6 auctioned off for good charities and have the rest up here for contest prizes.
Hows that sound?
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1682 Posts |
I think the coins should be returned to the family. One was already allowed to be sold. Two are public display.
US government was very heavy handed when they took us off the gold standard and restricted ownership of gold.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4085 Posts |
The government set a precedent with the allowed sale and split of proceeds with the government of one of the coins in 2002 for close to $8 million. Furthmore, the US mint has a history of "allowing" coins to "disappear" and appears in the past to have played favorites by allowing certain coins to fall into certain people's hands "by accident".
I think the Langbords made a big mistake in turning the coins over without assurance that they would be returned, however.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2520 Posts |
 I would have turned over one and only one for authentication! |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
The only one in private hands is legal because it was the purported King Farouk Specimen. Farouk was a former Egyptian king, deposed in 1952, and he was a collector of many things- including rare coins from all over the world. Agents of Farouk in the US purchased the coin for him in the 1940s and they dutifully applied for an export license. The license was granted and the coin was exported before someone realized that the coin shouldn't have been in private hands in the first place. That export license essentially "legalized" the coin which eventually allowed for the 2002 sale but it did not create precedent due to the singular circumstance of the export license. There was strong evidence that Israel Switt had connections with a US Mint cashier in Philadelphia who was his source for these coins and many others. All of the double eagles to have turned up so far have been traced to Switt so more than likely he was the sole source for all surviving 1933 double eagles. Including these ten, around 20 1933s have been traced to him. I have no doubt that Switt obtained them through less-than-legitimate means and that will forfeit any right that his heirs think they may have to the coins. All they are going to wind up with is a six figure legal bill  Also, the 2002 buyer of the original 1933(the anonymous chap who shelled out almost $8 million) may have a legal claim against the government if any more were to come onto the market since the auction was for the only example that was ever to be legalized. If more had the potential to become available, that coin would not have sold for that much in the first place and any future sales will guarantee that the coin would lose a large portion of its value. Edited by biokemist6
06/01/2009 12:01 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3294 Posts |
I voted that the government has a right to them, but they do need to reimburse the family with the same number of double eagles from other years, since those are what he traded to get the 1933s.
Edited by nod2003
06/01/2009 12:31 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
632 Posts |
What biokemist said pretty much sums it up. I didn't know that part of the story about the 1933 double eagles.
I agree that the government has a right to take them, but should definitely afford the current owners some eminent domain.
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
Regardless of technicalities, the circumstances under which things happened were DIFFERENT....now there is no similar restriction on ownership, and its more an issue of rarity. IMO, the gov't is just being greedy as usual.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
Quote:
I have no doubt that Switt obtained them through less-than-legitimate means and that will forfeit any right that his heirs think they may have to the coins. All they are going to wind up with is a six figure legal bill That may be the naked truth to the situation--but since the heirs may not have the same intent, I cannot help but root for the underdog.  So, if the government wants these coins so badly, perhaps they should be forced to melt them upon receipt?  Or--make them permanent donations to museums for the public to enjoy. After all, Americans paid for these--they should be theirs. They should not be in some bureaucrat's "private collection", away from public view. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1082 Posts |
If it can be proven that Switt got them in less than legal circumstances, then the 1933's should be forfeited to the government, but only under the proviso that the government shall not melt them down -- they should be kept as government property, but exhibited. That way, the value of the legitimized one is kept intact.
The family should get back the same number of gold coins of other years, as nod2003 says.
However, this may all be easier said than done -- the burden of proof rests with the government to prove that Stitt got them unscrupulously -- just saying he did doesn't cut it.
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Moderator
 United States
187637 Posts |
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Or--make them permanent donations to museums for the public to enjoy. If we are indeed a government of the people then this is the best choice. However, I know that "the government" in this story is actually a handful of self-serving bureaucrats. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:
Or--make them permanent donations to museums for the public to enjoy. That is exactly what should happen to them IMO. I say send one to the ANA museum in Colorado Springs, the ANS museum in New York, the Newman Money Museum in St Louis(hey, a guy has to have hope )and distribute the rest to any other public displays at the US Mints and Federal Reserve Banks. Quote:
but only under the proviso that the government shall not melt them down I seem to remember reading somewhere that when the Gold Reserve Act was rescinded in the 1970s, these coins would no longer be required to be melted down. Edited by biokemist6
06/01/2009 5:17 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1062 Posts |
The US mint cannot just take things from people. They could claim that all the money in the world is theirs, and claim it was obtained illegally, and not having to prove it, this could lead to a lot of damage.
If they can PROVE anything, then let them try. I doubt they will win. Mainly because there is no evidence on either side as to how they were obtained. But who cares, that was a long time ago. Maybe the whole economy will be revived (okay, being stupid, but keep with it) because of all of this. What will the mint do anyone, melt them? For what purpose? They are a part of US history in themselves. Let them exist, let them be worth as much as someone is willing to pay for them.
perhaps some of the money should go somewhere useful. Maybe they can put it towards the building of the Bush library, I hear that isn't going to well. (Please no!)
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Replies: 24 / Views: 2,212 |
Posted 06/01/2009 10:00 am
