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Continental Imitation Of Edward I - ID Needed

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Bacchus2's Avatar
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 Posted 09/23/2025  02:12 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Bacchus2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi,
Would anyone have a reference for this one? I can;t find it in Coincrafts English coins, nor Coins of England by Spink.

So it appears to be a continental imitation of an Edward I penny.- same weight and size. Unfortunately I don't have the Mayhew book but I borrowed it and couldn't find it there either.

The obverse legend is not one of the usual Edward ones
EDWAR DVS . REX . ANGL HB

And as well as an annulet either side of the word REX there is one on the King's breast. The reverse is the standard CIVITAS LONDON.

Thanks in advance


Continental-Imitation-Of-Edward-I---ID-Needed
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 09/23/2025  07:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The ones that I know are not such a direct imitation. They usually contain the name of the local sovereign, sometimes with the letters arranged in a way to look like the lettering on the English prototype.

There is a new feature on Numista called "series" that covers types that cut across multiple countries (like the gold florin and Edwardian imitations). I will see what I can find.

Meanwhile, for anyone else who wants to check it out: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/se...php?id=10734

Added: Oops! I missed that you said you had been able to borrow a copy of Mayhew and look through it (which probably just confirmed my earlier comment). If it didn't show up there, maybe we are looking at a contemporary counterfeit?
Edited by tdziemia
09/23/2025 07:52 am
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 Posted 09/23/2025  08:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The ones that I know are not such a direct imitation. They usually contain the name of the local sovereign, sometimes with the letters arranged in a way to look like the lettering on the English prototype.


That's absolutely true - though there do appear to be some issues that sailed very close to the wind with regards to the "imitation / copy distinction. John the blind (Luxemburg) issued coins that contain +EDWA, DNS and REX as part of the legends and coins from Lourraine, Toul and Verdun has examples where the legends are +EDWAR ANGL DNS - which are basically straight lifts of the English penny


Quote:
There is a new feature on Numista called "series" that c overs types that cut across multiple countries (like the gold florin and Edwardian imitations). I will see what I can find.
Thanks for highlighting that. I think I may have stumbled on it accidently as I found around 40 "sterling imitation's" listed there


Quote:
If it didn't show up there, maybe we are looking at a contemporary counterfeit?


That is another possibility, though the coin is actually very nice in hand and of good silver, so if it is, it's a well made one. I had already contacted the owner of the "stirlingimitations" website (a fantastic resource) but it hasn't been updated for a few years, the security certificates have lapsed and I've had no response so unfortunately, perhaps that person is no longer active
Edited by Bacchus2
09/23/2025 08:21 am
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 Posted 09/23/2025  08:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ah ha!

I think it may be Edward III - I found this reference.

1369-77 penny, London.
Obverse inscription is +EDWARDVS RE;X AnGLIE;, saltire stops, annulet on breast.
Reverse inscription is CIVI / TAS / LON / DON;, retrograde 'N', small pellet in each inner angle of cross.

Edited by Bacchus2
09/23/2025 08:57 am
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 09/23/2025  09:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well done!

Because I collect medieval Low Countries, I actually have two of the Edwardian imitations for Brabant
https://en.numista.com/441636
https://en.numista.com/246871

and I have my eye out for examples from Hainaut (some of which which can be narrowly dated) and Flanders.

They weren't always made with deceptive intent. The second Brabant coin came about after a monetary agreement between John III of Brabant and Edward III to strike some coins with identical specifications because of their trade relationships.
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 Posted 09/23/2025  09:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Arriving late to the party, but glad you got things sorted out @bac and @tdz. Well done!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
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"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
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 Posted 09/23/2025  10:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The second Brabant coin came about after a monetary agreement between John III of Brabant and Edward III to strike some coins with identical specifications because of their trade relationships.


That's really interesting - I did not know that. I've learned lots here today - many thanks

It's typical that I struggled with this coin for ages and about half an hour after I posted it it dawned on me what it probably was

Edited by Bacchus2
09/23/2025 10:05 am
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