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 Replies: 7 / Views: 585 |
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Valued Member
Poland
136 Posts |
Hi I've tried to find out a full legend however all places I found are with abridged legend only. Obverse is IOHA. DG. CO: PA RH. DV. BA. C. V. E. S So, IOHAnn Dei Gratia but I know this part only  Reverse RVDOL II RI IMP P F DEC - yeah, so Rudolph II Romani Imperium..... + ? I would appreciate any help on this  |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7933 Posts |
Probably Count Palatine, Duke of Bavaria blah blah bah.
Added:
To be more serious ...
CO PA RH is almost certainly Count of Rhine-Palatinate (Comes Palatinatus Rhenani).
The DV probably relates to a ducal title, but the question is which one?
He married Magdalene, the Duchess of Julich-Cleves-Berg in 1579, so perhaps he claimed a ducal title for these places, but Julich in Latin IVLIAE, and Berg is usually MONTIS in Latin (so, DV I C M)
I am sure there is a German catalog which has all the titles for these guys, but I do not have it.
Maybe change your title to "Palatinate - Zweibrucken: Unknown Titles of Johan I" and someone else will respond?
Edited by tdziemia
10/23/2025 2:17 pm
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Moderator
 United States
34395 Posts |
@numi, we are a visual bunch here. On the off-chance that we disagree with your reading of the inscriptions, can you please post full obv and rev pictures of this coin? Thx. Normally, we just lock these threads until there is a picture, but I'm going to keep this one open for now in the hopes that you add those pictures. Thx!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Moderator
Australia
16806 Posts |
I would assume the coin type being discussed is one similar to this one on Numista: https://en.numista.com/158193Numista, unusually, has not offered a translation of the legend like they usually do. Perhaps because nobody's figured it out fully yet. On the emperor's side, the letters after "IMP" are not among the usual Imperial titles, such as seen on coins from Austria for example. "P F" can only be a harkening back to the ancient Roman imperial titles, where "P F" meant "Pius Felix", pious and happy. "DEC" I can only assume to be "Declaratio", indicating that Rudolf II had been "declared" emperor on being elected as King of Germany, but never actually "crowned" as emperor by the Pope as was ancient custom (the last emperor to actually be coronated as such was Charles V in 1530). On the prince's side, CO: PA RH is certainly "count of the palatinate of the Rhine". "DV." is Dux, or Duke, and "BA" is Bavaria. My best guess at "C. V. E. S" would be "Count of Vendez and Sponheim". Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7933 Posts |
I had also thought Bavaria but reading the guy's bio could not find a clear connection.
The coins however have a coat of arms with Bavaria as part.
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Moderator
Australia
16806 Posts |
In a tradition going back to Count Stephen in 1459, all his descendants had "Duke in Bavaria" included in their titles, even if they owned no actual land in Bavaria.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Valued Member
 Poland
136 Posts |
Ah, sorry for no picures, is seems that I had forgot to upload them. Unfortunately the quality is low. The very coin is not in a great condition neither.   |
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Valued Member
Poland
136 Posts |
Quote:
"P F" meant "Pius Felix", pious and happy. "DEC" I can only assume to be "Declaratio",
On the prince's side, CO: PA RH is certainly "count of the palatinate of the Rhine". "DV." is Dux, or Duke, and "BA" is Bavaria. My best guess at "C. V. E. S" would be "Count of Vendez and Sponheim
I will trust your knowledge @Sap I've tried to edit the topic's name but it seems that it's not possible after 24 hours of the creation time. |
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Replies: 7 / Views: 585 |
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Posted 10/23/2025 6:28 pm
