| Author |
 Replies: 16 / Views: 1,172 |
|
Valued Member
United States
113 Posts |
I received this 1787 Fugio Cent that's a match for a Newman 20-X, problem is it only weighs 7.5 grams. Chatgpt says it's fake based on images I uploaded and the weight. It's actually brown, not as gold as the image. Advice? Weight: 7.5 grams Diameter: 28mm Width: 1.5mm  Edited by Bdlc
01/08/2026 10:32 am
|
|
|
|
Moderator
 United States
15381 Posts |
Authentication of this is beyond my expertise, but I look forward to what our experts have to say.
|
|
Moderator
United States
187446 Posts |
Quote:
Authentication of this is beyond my expertise, but I look forward to what our experts have to say.   |
|
Moderator
United States
94586 Posts |
sorry, above my paygrade (Am I getting paid here jbuck?  )  |
|
Moderator
United States
187446 Posts |
Quote:
Am I getting paid here jbuck? Negative.  |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10470 Posts |
The soft details and the "pinholes" ( gas porosity defects) tend to be characteristics of a casting.
|
|
Valued Member
 United States
113 Posts |
Yes Marv, but this coin has some environmental damage and could just be a result of that. The coin to me if counterfeit looks like it was die-struck long ago. An update from another group is that the 7.5 grams is actually at the 1-2% low range of one of the hoards found. So although it is in the bottom bracket of Fugios found in the hoard, the weight of 7.5 grams does not necessarily indicate it's fake.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10470 Posts |
Quote:
So although it is in the bottom bracket of Fugios found in the hoard, the weight of 7.5 grams does not necessarily indicate it's fake. You just have to know what casting pinholes look like compared to corrosion.. I've been involved in foundry consulting for around 40 years so it reminds me of a casting and absolutely I could be wrong. If an original Cent was used as the pattern your coin will show the exact details of a true cent. You have to look at the surface to judge. I do believe a real fugio cent weighs in at 10.2 grams, but of course back then there weren't exact standards. |
|
Valued Member
United States
113 Posts |
Yes, and I'm not an expert on the subject. My feeling though is what would be the likelihood of a 20-X which is a rarer variety of the Fugio to be used to create a mold for a run of fakes. I am having it looked at by a group of Fugio aficionados, so if I get a definitive determination on it I will of course post it here. Thanks Marv for taking a look at it and giving your analysis, I appreciate that.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
113 Posts |
Update: It has been determined it is an exact match for a 1787 Newman 20-X R-3 Fugio Cent. How much that means I'm not sure.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10470 Posts |
Quote:
I am having it looked at by a group of Fugio aficionados, so if I get a definitive determination on it I will of course post it here Best of luck - Hope it turns out to be real, |
|
Valued Member
United States
113 Posts |
Thanks Marv65. Would the characteristics you speak of also be present on a coin that was cleaned with an acid solution, vinegar and salt, etc? The consensus among those who seem to specialize in these is that it's legit, but that doesn't mean it is. My understanding is that to make a mold you would need a pretty solid example of the coin to start with. Since the 20-X is an R-5 Fugio, wouldn't that tend to indicate it is highly unlikely that someone used a 20-X to make a mold for counterfeits?
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4415 Posts |
FWIW ... Having collected colonial era coins/tokens for many years, I'm in the LEGIT camp on this piece. Given the ED, I'm thinking it was a ground find by a detectorist, perhaps?
|
|
Moderator
United States
94586 Posts |
Quote:Quote:
Am I getting paid here jbuck? Negative. Dang it! I just knew it..  |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10470 Posts |
Quote:
Would the characteristics you speak of also be present on a coin that was cleaned with an acid solution, vinegar and salt, etc? Those items you mention would just effect the surface on the coin if they are used to clean it but not soak in it for a long period of time. |
|
Valued Member
United States
113 Posts |
What about buried in the ground for a period of time with soil that had high levels of certain substances, or perhaps a sub-par planchet with issues to begin with? Many of the certified Fugios I look at in very high grades seem to have somewhat of a sand-cast look to them. I've looked at about 100 of them the last few days.
In other words, is there a sensible situation where you could observe what you observe, but it also be legit?
Edited by Bdlc
01/09/2026 7:10 pm
|
| |
Replies: 16 / Views: 1,172 |
Posted 01/08/2026 11:35 am
