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1917-S Buffalo Nickel (2 Feathers) For Grading

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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
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 Posted 03/11/2026  5:54 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
What would you grade this one? Sellers photos.


1917-S-Buffalo-Nickel-2-Feathers-For-Grading 1917-S-Buffalo-Nickel-2-Feathers-For-Grading
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Errers and Varietys's Avatar
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 Posted 03/11/2026  9:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not good at grading these, but I'll say VG.
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Dearborn's Avatar
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panzaldi's Avatar
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 Posted 03/12/2026  09:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
G6 sounds right
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fortcollins's Avatar
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 Posted 03/12/2026  11:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Grading should refer to the state of preservation after a coin left the mint. On lower circulated examples, the Buffalo nickel and Standing Liberty quarter abraded die varieties should grade higher than the apparent grade. The extensive die abrading removed much of the coin's detail, and it therefore needed less circulation wear to create what is seen in hand. The key is determining what areas of the die were abraded.

The 1917-S two-feather has heavy abrasion at the former third feather (obviously), but extending to the first two digits of the date, Indian's neck, and hair above the knot. In later die states, the second feather and neck area was polished again. The Indian's chin / EPU clash was moderately polished on the obverse, but heavily polished on the reverse, all the way from the top of the tail to the top of the hump. The "LI" of LIBERTY / right rear leg clash was moderately polished on the obverse and reverse. The second feather / buffalo's head clash was moderately polished on the obverse, but a bit more heavily abraded on the reverse, but on the buffalo's head more than the field above the head. Wear on the knot, braids, and ribbons varies a bit by obverse design variety, as well.

That narrows the relatively unabraded areas for obverse grading to the hair at the cheek and forehead, braids, ribbons, and hair above the part and for reverse grading to the well-protected buffalo's face, beard, and neck and to the left side of the hump, forelegs, and left rear leg. Here, the unabraded areas look to be on the VG-10/F-12 bubble. I'd call this one VG-10.

Will a TPG get there with its grade? Probably not.
Edited by fortcollins
03/12/2026 12:05 pm
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panzaldi's Avatar
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 Posted 03/13/2026  11:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Grading should refer to the state of preservation after a coin left the mint


I've always said this but we know that doesn't happen in almost all cases. if this is the case then strike would also be included as well as other series like Bust Large cents

i would think a high percentage of collectors would have no idea what was pre or post release especially on a series like this.

FC, I appreciate your comments on this one as I can see what you were speaking of and now my eyes will be more attuned to what these die modifications look like. I was struggling pushing this one to VG and seriously doubt most folks would consider a 10 let alone a 12 grade. the problem is if you pay VG value its doubtful you would recover that for quite a while
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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
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 Posted 03/13/2026  1:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I always learn something from Fort Collins posts, thank you sir. The crappy strikes on most years of mm Buffalos makes them hard to grade. In the old days, using Brown & Dunn line drawings, it all came down to how much horn was on the Buffalo and how many full digits on the date. I've seen MS Buffalo nickels with incomplete horns. Looking at G-4, G-6, VG-8, VG-10 slabbed coins today, you rarely see full four digit dates now. I'm thinking that the TPG's are looking at strikes in their grading conclusions. I have been looking for Good and VG coins with four full digits in the date. It's tough.
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panzaldi's Avatar
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 Posted 03/14/2026  09:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm thinking that the TPG's are looking at strikes in their grading


I'm not sure how much weight they give to strike even though it is a component of the grade and I seriously doubt they have time to look at these in depth and include these little nuances as part of their assessment. I doubt they have the kind of knowledge that FC is imparting on us. the problem then becomes that grades assigned are market grades and not true grades and I'm betting the majority of collectors dont have the knowledge to assess them at this level.

i guess we have to go by what the market would grade them and use this knowledge to help in assessing our own grade and value the coin based on the what the market would say.

I'm open to comments on this and whether I'm way off base on it
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fortcollins's Avatar
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 Posted 03/14/2026  1:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is both hidden value and hidden danger in the frequently misgraded series. Where the frequently misgraded series overlap with abraded die varieties, the error rate increases. Buffs and SLQs are difficult enough to grade without the added complexity of abraded shield SLQs and abraded clash polishing on the Buffs.

Here are a few thoughts.
TPGs spend far too little time grading the more difficult coins. They functionally have an assembly line grading process, with quick assessments and a method to develop a grade consensus. Their graders are good, but rushed. On bourse floors, collectors and dealers have much more time to assess grades. This creates a huge advantage for collectors and dealers who seek the undergraded and hidden value coins and want to avoid getting bitten by the overgraded and overpriced coins.
In lower collectible grades (FR/AG/G), there isn't much upside for most coins, with the rare coins being obvious exceptions. In the upper grades (AU/UNC), grading is much more accurate. The greatest opportunities are in the lower middle grades (VG/F/VF) and the greatest risk in the upper middle grades (VF/EF), noting that VF is in both categories. Spend most of your time with the VG to EF coins.
All of the TPGs struggle with abraded die varieties in the VG/F/VF range. With a few notable exceptions, these coins have value more for the variety than the technical grade. The hunt for undergraded abraded die varieties generally is a hunt for better eye appeal and for a possible bargain price.
TPG overgrading is common at the EF/low AU level, and cautious grading there can avoid overpaying for coins.

I don't want to single out one TPG for things all TPGs are doing, so take this not as criticism of the largest TPG alone. Within the Buffalo series, I frequently see lower VF coins slabbed as F-15, F-12, and even VG-10. There is hidden value there. On the other hand, I also frequently see high VF coins slabbed as EF-40 and high EF coins pushed to AU-50. There is hidden danger there.

For collectors and dealers, there are five solutions:
Repeat the old mantra, "Buy the coin, and not the slab." Do this until you start looking at the coins without even looking at the TPG grade. Don't just repeat the words. Drill this deep into how you think about the coins. EVERY Buff and SLQ needs to be seen as a raw coin, regardless of the plastic prison around it.
Slow down. Take time. Grade each coin individually, carefully, and critically. Keep looking at the coin until you are confident of the grade. There's an old baseball adage that a chump practices something until he gets it right and a champ practices something until he can't get it wrong. Keep looking at the coin until you can't get it wrong.
Don't try to talk yourself into a coin. If you have to do that, walk away from the coin.
Take into consideration die state, strike quality, and die clash polishing, in that order. Assess each element separately.
Grade each coin using the scale that should exist, rather than the scale presently being used. In other words, in your mind include F-18, VF-18, and especially EF-48 as grades. I guarantee you will see the coins with hidden value much more readily by doing that and will start to see the overgraded EF-40 slabs as the VF-38 coins they actually are and the overgraded AU-50 slabs as the EF-48 sliders that they are.

Just some thoughts.
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