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Morgan Silver Dollar

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New Member
United Kingdom
29 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2009  12:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gee to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
http://s649.photobucket.com/albums/...=tageditmany
That should be the page they are on and they can be seen better from there
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2009  2:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've taken the liberty of capturing your pics to post here full-size:

Morgan-Silver-Dollar

Morgan-Silver-Dollar

It is not, I believe, a Chapman coin, but a rather curious one all the same. We'll discuss that in a minute.

First, given these pics, 100 out of 100 discerning numismatists would believe it has been brushed at some point - the parallel lines classic to brushing are predominant in these pictures. It may be that the lighting angle used in these pics (very good pics, for the record) is the only angle at which the brushing lines can be seen, and any other inspection of the coin might not reveal them.

Now. 1921 Morgans were minted with two different reverses, and two different reed counts. The "standard" reed count is 189, but some number of examples were minted in a collar of 157 reeds. These are referred to as "Infrequent Reeding" coins.

The reverse dies, called D1 and D2, are characterized by these features: There are 17 berries in the wreath of D1, and 16 in D2, with the extra berry being found at the viewer's top right - D1 has a berry on the inside of the wreath here, and D2 does not. The top arrow fletch of D1 meets the eagle's talons at the center talon, whereas with D2 the fletch meets the eagle's talons between the right (viewer's left) and center talons. The olive branch on D1 is noticeably weaker than D2 in this area.

The coin shown here has the characteristics of a D2 reverse, most easily visible through the talon features I mention. Chapman Proofs used the D1 reverse. This coin, therefore, cannot be a Chapman Proof.

Now, here's the kicker: Only one die pair is noted which used the D2 reverse and also the Infrequent Reeding collar. This variety, known as VAM-44, is rare indeed. With a coin showing some circulation, as does the example here, the best marker to identify this variety is a die scratch inside the ear, pictured below:

Morgan-Silver-Dollar

So, it's important to determine, first, if this coin used the Infrequent Reeding collar. If you have another Morgan, any Morgan, compare them side-by-side. An Infrequent Reeding 1921 will have noticeably wider flat areas between the reeding gaps; it's very much the fewest reeds used on any Morgan. If this coin proves to have 157 reeds, then it should be studied very carefully, starting with the detail I pictured above.
New Member
United Kingdom
29 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2009  2:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gee to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thank you SuperDave, the info you supplied is a great help. as far as a scratch in the ear is concerned, I have used the lens off of the camera to try and see if it works as a type of high powered magnifier, I do get a good view of the ear and there does seem to be something very feint, very confusing, is there any other marks I can look for?
if it is not a Chapman, or a Vam-44, then is it a standard coin? I have re counted the reeds and it is 148.
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yotie's Avatar
United States
3077 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2009  3:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yotie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i got 148 as well am I counting the correct thing ?
New Member
United Kingdom
29 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2009  3:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gee to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
superDave, I have linked up 2 pc's with the Chapman on one, and mine on the other, I can't see any difference with where the top arrow fletch meets the talons, I must admit my photo is clearer than the "genuine" Chapman shown earlier in this forum, but as far as I can see, and I have both screens at the same magnification, and I must admit my eye is untrained to look for the details you describe but I have had other people look at both screens and tell me what is the difference. The only comments I have had are they are the same but mine looks better. As with the ear photo can you show me a detailed photo showing the points you describe. If I am to put this coin back in a bag of old coins I want to be sure its just a normal silver dollar. Again thanks for your valuable information
New Member
United Kingdom
29 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2009  3:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gee to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yotie. I counted the "bumps"?
New Member
United Kingdom
29 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2009  3:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gee to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
does weight matter? and if so what weights are for waht coins?
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steve199's Avatar
United States
1882 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2009  3:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve199 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I counted 148, too.
New Member
United Kingdom
29 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2009  3:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gee to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SuperDave where does the 148 reeds come into the picture, you mentioned 189 and 157 but 2 more people have 148, and please show me the differences between my dollar and Chapman,
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
189120 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2009  3:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I cannot see the reeding in the photos.

Are we confusing reeds (on the actual coin edge) with denticles (on the edge of the coin surfaces)?
New Member
United Kingdom
29 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2009  3:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gee to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i am countint the raised parts of the coin looking at it face on. Not the ridges along the edge
New Member
United Kingdom
29 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2009  4:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gee to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
so it seems I am counting denticles?
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nod2003's Avatar
United States
3294 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2009  4:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nod2003 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It would appear that way. I cannot see the reeds to count those. Reeds are the ridges along the edge, that you see when looking at the coin from the side.
New Member
United Kingdom
29 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2009  4:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gee to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i am really sorry, I know nothing about coins, I live in england and have a silver dollar, and reading various descriptions it seemed I had a Chapman, (last week the word meant nothing)but now it seems not, whatever I have it is a great coin to look at,
it weighs 28 gramms ish (kitchen scales)
measures just over 38mm with my sons plastic ruler
apart from the photos it has a sheen,shine that seems to defy its age, its 88 years old and looks really good and defined, I guess my storage methods need a lot to be desired, the photos I posted on photobucket to show it in "flash" light, the naked eye cant see any imperfections, but I agree it looks like someone somewhere "scrubbed" it, else its a result of some wear I cant describe, I am a skilled sheet metal worker, and I know polishing marks, buffing, etc. the abrasions on the coin are too rough for polishing, again this was only visible with the camera, but perhaps before I got the coin (pre late 60s/early70s) someone tried to clean it with some rough method, or was cleaned because was genuinley dirty, it would have been well over 40 yeas old then, when I received the coin and an aunt told me it was a "real silver dollar" and until last week when I decided to try and sell sone vinyl singles on ebay I looked at silver dollars, since last week my dollar seemed to point toward something special, if it is, ok it needs to go to someone who apreciates it, if not it goes back in the coin bag, thats all. I just need to know.
New Member
United Kingdom
29 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2009  4:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gee to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ok, reeds, the ridges around the coin? mmm hope the eyes can dount those, here goes
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