| Author |
 Replies: 17 / Views: 17,495 |
|
New Member
United States
5 Posts |
I purchased this Draped Bust Dollar recently after having browsed through an extensive article, with numerous examples, of coin forgeries, methods, etc. Since Bust Dollars have a reputation, since it was purchased through e-bay, ungraded (in addition to my counterfeit paranoia), I've questioned its authenticity. Has the eye or hair been re-tooled, does the reverse edge indicate that it was collared when forged, etc? The Seller, on the other hand, is apparently reputable, the refund policy guarantees that it is genuine, and it's probably unnecessary concern. Still, I would like feedback from the forum if any members are skilled in this area. Thanks!   Edited by tmlaff725
11/15/2009 07:42 am
|
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
532 Posts |
I mainly focus on Copper of this era so this is outside my element. Most all of the 17XX collectors overlap with one another in sales outlets so we view many of the same coins during our quests. We become familiar with one anothers worlds just by exposure.
While not extremely familiar with the intricacies of the silvers I have always admired them and have on many occasion seized the opportunity to hold them in hand and study them.
I have my thoughts on it but do not want to sway any conversations out of the gate. Others that may know more than I do so I shall hold back on my assessments. But I do have several comments about your coin's attributes. I want to see if others see the same thing.
Edited by RFB
11/15/2009 08:47 am
|
|
Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
Both obverse and reverse are wrong, they were used until 1796. I also see what looks like signs of casting under the shoulder. I think this is a Chinese copy.
Oops, I have bust half dollars on the brain, misread it as a half instead of a dollar. still looks like a cast coin to me.
Edited by echizento
11/15/2009 4:24 pm
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
Looks very fake to me. Rims have little actual wear in places yet the design has plenty. The scratches I see under the chin look like they were cast or in the making as well as those on the reverse. The evidence of another rim leaving that mark to lightly "distress" this between OF and AMERICA looks so well placed. Nice touch with the rim dings. No wonder Liberty has a "Black eye".  I would only buy such an important coin from a very reputable US Dealer or Auction house in person graded by a TPG and I would look up the registration number. They sell fake slabs too. I bet you could find other coins with some of the exact same scratches and defects for sale from Hong Kong and China. Check out this guy selling the same fake coin twice! [eBayItem]260498974067[/eBayItem] and [eBayItem]260506005062[/eBayItem] and in St Louis! Some people like to live dangerously. I am not skilled in this area, but my gut feeling would be stay away. |
|
Valued Member
United States
106 Posts |
|
|
Valued Member
United States
106 Posts |
Uh, that was supposed to be "1795" only. And what happened to edit?
|
|
Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
Quote:
Both obverse and reverse are wrong, they were used until 1796. Quote:
Fascinating. It's got the draped bust obverse, but the flowing hair reverse. Can you guys expand on this a bit for me? Here is a certified 1795 draped bust dollar from Heritage, and it essentially looks the same to me as far as overall structure to the OP's coin, but I may be missing something. Also, according to the sight posted, they began minting draped bust dollars in 1795 with the small eagle, and didn't switch to the heraldic eagle until 1798. Am I missing something? That being said, whether or not the correct obverse and reverse were used, I still really question the authenticity of the OP's coin. This is a coin not to be purchased raw, and I would return it.   Edited by johnny54321
11/15/2009 4:15 pm
|
|
Valued Member
United States
106 Posts |
By "It's got the draped bust obverse, but the flowing hair reverse." I didn't mean to say that such a coin is a (bad) fake, but that I had just learned another little bit about US coins I hadn't known before. The link I gave says that they didn't add in the usual draped bust reverse until the next year. As to whether it is genuine or not, it doesn't look like old silver to me, but I don't know anything about this area. Maybe that's what coins look like after they're dug up. Wish I could afford this sort of thing. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
I'm hardly an expert here, but a good starting question might be: what is the weight?  |
|
Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
No way this is real, design appears too 'sharp' in many areas and the eye looks off.
|
|
Moderator
United States
16679 Posts |
 Also notice the excessive tooling to add marks and abrasions. The date area is a dead giveaway as well as facial details. swcoin.ecrater.com
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1173 Posts |
My gut screams "fake." I don't like Liberty's face, expecially her eye. Then there's the shoulder and date...could be a bad photo, but very questionable appearance.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
6384 Posts |
I also believe it's a fake and obviously deceptive enough to fool your dealer (unless he's just a crook!). Here are images of a genuine 1795 Draped Bust dollar, certified by PCGS and graded AU-53. This one sold for almost $10K in a 2007 Heritage auction. Along with the features noted by the other posters, check out the differences in the lettering. AMERICA in particular is very poorly formed on your coin.   There is really no excuse for offering a coin like this which has not been certified by PCGS, NGC, ANACS, or ICG. All these services now offer a "genuine" grade even for problem coins. Certification is mandatory, unless you are really an expert on the specific coin type. Please let us know whether you are successful at getting your money back. This is when you find out how honest your dealer really is! |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1304 Posts |
I'm going to say fake also. The surface tecture dose not look right to me. I have a pronlem with the wear, the eye, below the shoulder, deffinition in the eagle, and the date.
|
|
Rest in Peace
United States
2668 Posts |
Nose taint right neither.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
303 Posts |
The coin looks ok to me when comparing to the two other posted.
The lettering detail looks sharp and not faded, unlike Chinese fakes.
No obvious errors, unlike Chinese fakes.
Hair and eagle detail looks good.
Looks cleaned though
Look at the edge and weigh the coin.
|
| |
Replies: 17 / Views: 17,495 |
Posted 11/15/2009 09:24 am
