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Updated! ..conversation W/ Bank Manager .. Dump Treasures

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ratman4762's Avatar
United States
2521 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2009  8:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ratman4762 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I still maintain that offering customers twice face on silver that is worth 12 times face is deceptive and dishonest. It is completely different than picking 90 percent silver out of a change drawer when you don't know who spent it. It really doesn't change the dishonesty
Then I gather that you as a collector have never received something worth more than face value in change from a transaction? (be it silver, a Wheat cent or Buffalo...anything at all) And if you did and did not return it...you would be as dishonest as you claim "Joe" is. (by your standards)
Joe could just sit in his office and let the customers finish dumping their coins and leave before retrieving the silver. There is nothing dishonest about that. Nobody forced these people to use the Coinstar. But he is being dishonest by giving them twice what the machine was going to give them?
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okie-colin's Avatar
United States
1083 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2009  9:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okie-colin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have never received anything of great numasmatic value in change, but that is a completely different deal in my opinion. Receiving change from a merchant and finding a chance silver dime is a bit different than intentionally deceiving a bank customer who is cashing in change don't you think?
Locked
822 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2009  9:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scubu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
An analogy: you're a gardener; your job is to rake up leaves and take them away. One day, someone comes up to you and asks for a particular leaf off of a particular tree, and will pay you big bucks for it. As far as you can tell, that leaf is just the same as all the other leaves on the tree, and that tree isn't particularly special, either. So if some crazy guy wants to "buy" one of "your" leaves off you, why not? Your new role as "leaf-dealer" has nothing really to do with your main job as a gardener. I can't see the gardening company being particularly bothered by it, either.


Years ago I was doing roofing, gutters, siding and such. Put a new roof on a big old house. Customer then wants a quote on them newfangled seamless gutters. Give them a price and do the job.

So what?

The gutters we ripped down were solid copper half round. 700 feet of it. (Did I mention this was a big house?) Customer asked if it would cost extra to haul it away when he saw the huge twisted pile of metal in his yard. We took it away for free though.
Valued Member
coinyoungsta's Avatar
United States
280 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2009  9:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinyoungsta to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yeah, but they didn't want the change in the first place so if he is going to give them more then what they had expected to walk away with, what is the big problem, both people gain. he gets another coin for his collection at low cost and the customer gets more money then they actually dumped-JMO
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okie-colin's Avatar
United States
1083 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2009  9:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okie-colin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I guess the key question here is whether or not it is ok to profit off some one else's ignorance of coins and value. I know that some collectors boast of going to an estate sale or garage sale and virtually stealing coins and collections because the people selling them had no knowledge of coins or value. To me it is a matter of degree. If I make a shrewd buy from a coin dealer (and believe me I try) well than good for me. The coin dealer knows, or should know, the value of what he is selling. If I exploit the general public's lack of knowledge to add to my own collection and profit, than I have just piled on to the poor reputation that this hobby has for ethics. More importantly I have harmed myself. Maybe Bernie Madoff started off with these petty dishonesties. Who knows?
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ratman4762's Avatar
United States
2521 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2009  9:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ratman4762 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have never received anything of great numasmatic value in change

But you have received, and did not return an item of numismatic value...A few silver coins are not of "great numismatic value"

Quote:
but that is a completely different deal in my opinion
.
Same deal, no matter the spin! Everybody is entitled to their opinion!

Quote:
Receiving change from a merchant and finding a chance silver dime is a bit different than intentionally deceiving a bank customer who is cashing in change don't you think?
First off, Joe isn't deceiving anybody. The customers are voluntarily dumping their coins into the machine. Secondly, he is voluntarily offering them 2x face (something he doesn't have to do in the first place).

Not to sound cruel, but....If they aren't smart enough to figure out that the coins are worth more than face value by the offer Joe made them, than they probably aren't smart enough to figure out what to do with them anyhow!


Quote:
Maybe Bernie Madoff started off with these petty dishonesties. Who knows?
Not sure about this, But I am pretty sure that 99% of coin collectors started out with your so-called petty dishonesties. (obtaining coin at face value from circulation)
Edited by ratman4762
11/25/2009 10:03 pm
Valued Member
stephen's Avatar
United States
206 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2009  10:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stephen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
if I where to have a coin shop next to bank wold be Ideal
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okie-colin's Avatar
United States
1083 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2009  6:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okie-colin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hey Ratman, hope you had a good Thanksgiving. This is my last post on this topic, but I thought I better straighten something out since you seem to be twisting my meaning.

Your quote - Not sure about this, But I am pretty sure that 99% of coin collectors started out with your so-called petty dishonesties. (obtaining coin at face value from circulation)

If you go back and read my post I am NOT accusing all coin collectors who pull coins from circulation as dishonest. Far from it. There is a clear difference in a face to face meeting between a bank employee who offers a customer one tenth of what his change is worth versus finding something in change when you have no way of knowing who it was who spent the silver in the first place. If you cannot see the distinction between those two than I give up. I'm done.
Valued Member
coincollectingkid's Avatar
United States
323 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2009  7:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coincollectingkid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AND... RATMAN WINS!! lol
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snowman's Avatar
United States
1840 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2009  8:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add snowman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
When you work in a bakery, you take home extra bread.


I work in a pharmacy. What does this mean for me?

Good for the bank manager. The fact that US coins were once made of silver is not a tightly held secret. Most people are also aware that old coins are more valuable than their modern counterparts. Both the bank manager and roll searchers take advantage of the fact that many people simply don't care.
Valued Member
Brannenworks's Avatar
United States
106 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2009  8:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Brannenworks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The recent horror movie, "Drag Me to Hell" has this theme as part of the plot.
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ratman4762's Avatar
United States
2521 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2009  9:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ratman4762 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hey Okie'Colin, hope you had a good Thanksgiving Too. This is also my last post on this topic. Obviously we will never see eye to eye on this matter.
If Joe had stayed in his office and never had face to face contact with this person, he still would have gotten the silver...but for half the price! Absolutely nothing dishonest about it!
I think you are just hung up on the fact that he is a Bank Manager.

Ponder this.... Joe is a 10 year old coin collector waiting to use the Coinstar when he spots the person ahead of him dumping coins! Joe notices a silver quarter and asks the person if he can purchase it (and anymore like it) for 50 cents each! The person happily obliges and both leave happy! (Joe is a new collector but knows the silver quarters are worth more than he paid)
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copper nickel daddy's Avatar
United States
2224 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2009  11:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add copper nickel daddy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Joe is in an enviable position as far as I am concerned. As long as he is not stealing I see nothing wrong with his actions. I just wish I was in his position; it's like making an extra 12K a year!
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Coin_Guy's Avatar
United States
143 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2009  04:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coin_Guy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
He is doing nothing illegal, but rather something that is very smart. He replaces everything that he takes so he is not stealing from the bank. Sounds to me as though he is a very resourceful man. I would love to have his job! - Happy Collecting
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Morgans Dad's Avatar
United States
5619 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2009  4:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Snowman states "I work in a pharmacy. What does this mean for me? " in answer, ( I feel to my statement " when you work in a Bakery, you take home bread.( This is a benefit for the employee for working there because the bread would go bad if left be or thrown away.)
I just used this phrase for an example, this is one phrase I have heard all of my life .

I feel this topic has some very interesting opinions and also feel some where along the way (life), some people have lost the do unto to others as you would have done to you theory.

I see some very passionate answers, I like this, and think some people have lost the sense of the 'honorable' thing to do, not what is best for me and justify it to others with an example of the lack of honor or respect for others, almost like "you did not know, so you are at a loss, or I was there and you were not.

As a group involved in coin collecting, I would think the hobby has a poor reputation as it is from seedy people trying to take advantage of others and we again as a group, IMO, should be doing what we can to re-build this attitude towards our fellow man.

I also believe this manager should not be allowed to do this, here's a thought, would it be unheard of for a bank manager, with Numismatic knowledge, to "fully assist" other's with their coinage, meaning have this manager inform the customer of exactly what the customer has, as a service to the bank/customer.

I know this is a out of the ordinary service, but the concept is unique to the industry, as opposed to the original poster's topic........
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