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 Replies: 15 / Views: 1,896 |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
This one is going to be very tricky !   |
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Valued Member
United States
278 Posts |
AU-55. Slight wear on the cheek. Still some luster. Wish it was mine...
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
Beautiful! I was thinking 53/55 depending on how much luster remains. It has a nice original look to it!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6381 Posts |
Looks solid for AU-55 and might slide into AU-58. I see slight friction in the fields and on Liberty's cheek which should preclude any mint state grade. There appears to be slight strike weakness on the eagle's right (facing) wing and talon and the arrow feathers which is pretty typical for Barber halves. Is that a scratch above the date? If so that could drop the grade a notch. |
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Pillar of the Community
 3660 Posts |
Yes, I believe that is a scratch on the coin rather than on the holder. You are all very good at this, much better than I would have done. I said that this was going to be very tricky, but I feel rather guilty as it was really more deceitful and devious than it was 'tricky'. I can't let this continue any longer for fear of angering folks, so here is this disappointing coin in it's holder:  |
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
Zeewool, I don't mean to offend, but this coin is not proof. Based on what I see there is wear on several areas. On the obverse there are several bag marks with a good size ding on the cheek above the hair coil, along with some sligh wear on the hair in front. On the reverse, there is wear on the wing feathers, tail feathers, talons, legs feathers, shield, and feathers on the arrows. I would grade this coin at AU-53 with a shot at AU-55.
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
No offense taken echizento as I would rate your opinion above mine in these matters. I don't know the first thing about grading. Evidently the folks at ANACS don't either 'eh?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:
this coin is not proof. Based on what I see there is wear on several areas. Wear has nothing to do with a coin being a proof or not, a proof is always a proof and nothing can change that. Proof is a minting method just like a business strike is another minting method. The satin finish coins in current mint sets would be a third type. Proof dies undergo special preparation and coins are generally struck more than once with greater than normal pressure. If that coin were a business strike, it would have the strongest strike you could ever find. As it is, the Barber Half pictured is a circulated(impaired) proof. Generally, an impaired proof would be one harshly cleaned or damaged but it also applies to one that has been circulated which does rarely happen. |
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Moderator
United States
23731 Posts |
I understand the process of striking a proof coin, but I don't see where this coin meets that standard. IMO the coin appears to be a normal business strike with AU detail, I see no indication that it was ever struck as a proof coin. So what you are saying is that if a coin was struck as a proof went into circulation and is now based on it's wear in VF-30 condition. That it would still be graded as a proof? Sorry but I'm not buying that. The coin should be graded at it's current condition and not what it was. This is an interesting coin for a small debate.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
I think the point you are missing is that proof is not a grade, the level of wear is irrelevant. As I stated previously, once a proof always a proof, nothing changes that fact. Look at the strike- it is hammered. Those rims are so sharp and squared off that you could probably cut your finger on them, you will never see rims like that on a business strike. And I am not really sure where the VF-30 came from, that coin is obviously nowhere near VF-30 or PF-30  |
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
biokemist is correct. A proof can be in circulation for years, and still be considered a "proof" all the way down to a lowly VG or Fine or even further down. Anywhere from PF-01 to PF-70 is a valid grade/designation. Occasionaly a proof will enter circulation, especially with older silver coins. 50 cents was a lot of money 100 years ago, so one can conceivably take a "proof" struck coin, and spend it at the local grocery store since they need food, thereby entering the proof into circulation. After years of circulation, it could wear down to the VF level before being plucked out again and saved as a collectable. At this point, it may be difficult to attribute as a proof, but IT IS still a proof and always will be.
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
As far as the coin in question is concerned, I agree that it is almost certainly a proof due to the squared edges, well struck devices, and what looks to be a bit of a cameo on the reverse! I didn't notice it at first, they get much harder to attribute after seeing some circulation. Circ proofs are cool, and I would take that over an AU business strike any day due to the scarcity and strike. ANACS is a reliable grading company too. Nice coin! Dont worry about angering anyone...lol. It's a great learning experience for all since it's not often we see a circ proof up for display. Also, there is absolutely NOTHING disappointing about that coin. Please continue to post your coins, and don't be afraid to give us more challenges.  Edited by johnny54321
01/11/2010 6:10 pm
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Moderator
United States
23731 Posts |
So what you are saying is that taking my VF-30 coin for example, if that coin was struck in proof but now based on the amount of wear would grade as VF-30. With the idea that once a Proof always a Proof, than my example coin would be graded and slabbed as PF-30. I guess you are right I must be missing the point and have to go back and re-read about proof coins.  Edited by echizento
01/11/2010 6:18 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
Quote:
So what you are saying is that taking my VF-30 coin for example, if that coin was struck in proof but now based on the amount of wear would grade as VF-30. With the idea that once a Proof always a Proof, than my example coin would be graded and slabbed as PF-30. Yes indeed! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8904 Posts |
 Proof is a separate minting process, different from business minting process. They are two distinctly different processes. A PF-01 is still a proof coin. It's not the condition of the coin that makes it a proof, but the minting process. I think we get very spoiled since most of the Proofs we see are VERY well preserved and are gorgeous in detail and their shiny/satin fields. Not to say this coin isn't gorgeous as well! I LOVE the detail! Good on ANACS for grading this correctly. (Though I guess it is their job...) |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1304 Posts |
I agree with the proof designation. But I have some issues with the number. Correct me were I'm wrong. Oberse: wear on the lower leaves, wear on the cheak and top of hat. Reaverse: Wear on the feathers of the neck. Wear on the wings nexf to the breast. Wear on the feathers of the legs. Wear on the tail feathers and legs. I'm not by any means an expert and ANACS is a good TPG, BUT I would give it XF-45. |
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Replies: 15 / Views: 1,896 |
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Posted 01/11/2010 12:07 pm
