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Replies: 29 / Views: 3,194 |
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Valued Member
United States
76 Posts |
interested in the opinions of collectors/investors, not dealers on this one. I am interested in collecting large cent to silver dollar from 1796 to 1807. We are excluding pre 1801 halves and the 1794 dollar. I would be talking only about coins certified by the top four grading services. Understanding that the benefit to collecting coins is primarily for the enjoyment of collecting, ownership pride, and the beauty and history of these coins, but also being a realist that all of this comes at a price and at some time there will be s time to sell what would be the lowest grade you would collect for the various denominations before the investment potential would be outweighed by the cost. For the least common, such as 1799 cent, 1796 and 1804 quarter, and 1801/1802 half would any detail called such as minor corrosion steer you away?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I guess its what you are trying to achieve, I don't think there is no minimum grade if it was a coin I wanted or needed. If I was trying to build a Bu set then MS-60 would be the lowest, if I was trying to build a AU and above set (like my 7070 album) then AU-50 is the minimum I would buy, but if I was just trying to fill holes then as long as you can see the date and know what the coin is and I could afford it I would buy it. If you are trying to build a set for more of a investment then I would buy the highest graded coin I could find and afford. as far as corrosion or any other problems, there is no place in my collection with a problem coin because no matter what it will always be a problem coin and when time to sell it will be a problem selling. Some series of coins are harder to find in problem free condition but they are out there and if all you can find is problem coins I would just save my money until I found one problem free. I could have bought 100 classic Head Large cents with problems but didn't because as I said a problem coin has no place in my collection
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Valued Member
 United States
76 Posts |
Bryan: in general I agree with you and do not knowingly go after "problem coins." However, unless you are inordinately wealthy, or want to have a collection of less than 10 coins, the terms AU and BU although relevant to a collector of Morgans, is not realistic to most collectors of flowing hair, draped bust coinage. Unless your last name is Getty, Rockefeller, or Gates, if you are collecting a 1799 cent, 1796 or 1804 quarter, you are probably going to have to set your sites a little lower and that was the general thrust of the question.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1571 Posts |
My 2-cents worth: It depends on a number of factors. If you are independantly rich, go for the best! Getting back down to material world things, then one should buty the best you can afford, depending on two things: One, are you collecting for your inheritors, or are you clooecting for uour own pleasure? If for the heirs to, A. run out and sell right away. It thea be the case, get the cheapest you can. Case in point: None of my 'heirs" are collectors So for whom am I going to collect ? B It depends on how old you are. Why? Because if you are young, and have most of your life ahead, then plan on goins slowly, but surely toward the best you can afford. you probably have time to do a good job. However, if you are an old fart, like me, your time is limited, and in my case, I collect to fill a set, or two, so I can say I have finished at least one set. Most folks will shy away from problem coins, and with good reason, as has been mentioned above. normally I would agree, and act accordingly, BUT, I am not a rich man. I live off a pension, and Social security, so my position is limited as to what I can do, not what I would LIKE to do. So, I work on sets of coins, and also problem coins. I have several sets of FE/IHC that are lacking the '77, and '09-S. Both are out of reach, even as G-8, ot problem, G-8. That is not to say that if a nice coin comes along, and I can afford to buy, Iwill pass. No way! It will replace one of my most "ugly', in that date! I consider a collection as "as many as possible" if not all". I don't think having a handful of dates, all AU, etc, as being a collection. Unless you are young, and just gertting started, then you are working on a collection. You may complete it in your furues, and have time to 'enjoy", or sell it, as an investment. Then you will have your money back, BUT, someone else will have the collection. I am happy, that I have been allowed to pursue, and achieve as much as I have, all considered. One of the kids have always said< "I want dad's car, and tools"! I do have two options: One put the collections in trust, for my great-greatgrandson. he was born this past August. by the time he is 21, there might not be any coins to collect, (zincolns, especially). The other: I'll be 85, my next birthday, and for my heirs, " if I can't take it with me, at least I'll have a ball while it lasts"!  Dick
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
If you knew anything about me you would know I don't just collect Morgans (no matter what my icon is), and even though I am not independently wealthy I do have discipline to where I can hold out for the right coin for the right price, no matter what series. if that means I have to save up for 5 years for the right coin in the right grade, so be it. I would get the best problem free coin I could afford over a problem coin of any grade. that is just my opinion but you are welcome to your own. Most people that collect coins do not do it as a investment they do it because they love the coins and most of them that I know would rather pull teeth than purchase a problem coin. But a person can buy what they like and use it for target practice for all I care, its theirs, just as long as they don't come thinking they will do it to mine because something besides the coins will have holes in them. As I said it is all according to what you are trying to accomplish with the set you are building, anyone can build a set of junk, it takes discipline to build a truly remarkable set that will pay you to be their caretaker with enjoyment and financially while they are in your care
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1083 Posts |
Quote: Most people that collect coins do not do it as a investment they do it because they love the coins and most of them that I know would rather pull teeth than purchase a problem coin. But a person can buy what they like and use it for target practice for all I care, its theirs, just as long as they don't come thinking they will do it to mine because something besides the coins will have holes in them. As I said it is all according to what you are trying to accomplish with the set you are building, anyone can build a set of junk, it takes discipline to build a truly remarkable set that will pay you to be their caretaker with enjoyment and financially while they are in your care
Bryan, I don't think Dick was attacking your method of collecting, just stating that he can have fun just completing circulated sets. Not everyone has the income, even with saving to go after an AU Classic Head Cent. Anyway, I think there is room here for all types of collecting tastes.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I was not attacking anyone either, I was just making a statement that anyone can buy what ever they like and do what ever they wish to the coins but my preference is to buy problem free coins no matter what series and even though they can do what they wish with theirs I try to protect mine from becoming problem coins as much as possible. It wasn't really targeted at any particular person even though now I read back I guess it could have been interpreted that way. I guess it was the comment saying you could do so with Morgans but to do so with any other series is not possible that kind of hit me the wrong way and kind of a stab at me because of my icon and even though I do collect Morgans its not the only series I collect and even though I do collect other series of coins my standards doesn't change with each series. I do apologize if my statement was taken the wrong way by anyone especially the OP but as I said it wasn't actually targeted towards any specific person
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Valued Member
 United States
76 Posts |
I think we are all getting maybe a little too personal here. This is supposed to be a nice friendly chat about common interests. This is a hobby for me, not a business. It is true that there is a monetary commitment to it, but that's the case with many worthwhile things in life. I took a look at Bryan1315 Dansco 7070 that he was kind enough to share with the other members of this forum. I think it is a great set and never really considered collecting that way. But now that I see it, might give it a try. To tell the truth, I haven't cracked any of my certified coins out of their holders; nor am I tempted to do so. The crackout game, although undoubtedly a money maker for many, is exactly what I don't like---it's a game, in the same way that graded common stamps is supposed to really mean something monetarily. For the crackout game to work that means that the assigning of a grade to a coin is very much arbitrary---something I truly believe happens. Sort of cheapens things don't you think. Anyway, if you add up all of the graded stickers that Bryan shows on his 7070 and apply that to the PCGS price list you come up with about $20,000 a nice piece of change to be sure with the King of the Mountain being the 1803 cent, Those are very nice coins. My only point previously having been, that what Bryan1315 accomplished is a little more difficult to do if you are looking for sets up to the 1807 mintage because while all of the Half Cents and cents can be found and probably afforded in the condition mentioned with saving over time, you are going to run into some serious stumbling blocks in the quarter, half dollar and dollar series by the dates of 1796/1804; 1794/1796/1797; and 1794/1804 respectively. There we are not talking about $4000, a coin but 40-400000 or more a coin.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I agree, some series of coins are way more expensive than others in higher grade and I have no problem with a PO01 coin myself if its the highest grade I could afford. I just don't like the the problem coins myself. I have seen some sets with nothing but problem coins in albums, actually one guy put nothing but coins that were holed in his dansco7070 album and actually has the set complete, I see nothing wrong with that if that is what they are going for, I guess the problem free thing is just a personal preference. I have never cracked out a coin for resubmission but if I don't know the series very well and am not comfortable either grading or authentication of that particular series I have no problem buying a slabbed version and cracking it out for a album. As strongly as I feel about problem coins I feel even stronger about fake coins and even though I know TPG's make mistakes atleast if I buy a slabbed version and crack it out I know it atleast had a professional opinion at the time of being real and of the grade
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Valued Member
 United States
76 Posts |
thanks for your note Bryan. I don't like problem coins either and agree completely with you about fakes. I have had extensive experience with stamps prior to coins and the amount of doctored stamps out there is truly amazing. I did however buy a slabbed 1799 large cent by ANACS with a small degree of corrosion. I don't see too many certified 1799's---and was not going to buy this uncertified.
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Is PMD a 'problem? Here is the most chewed up coin I have. I found it in my box with a label on the 2x2 that stated "rim ticks". Evidently 'somebody' bought the coin a long time ago. If it were I though, I might try to find one with a few less 'ticks'.  
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4085 Posts |
Welcome!!
I honestly think you need to set out your goals for the particular collection before you start and then stick to it. There is no correct answer.
I am also building a 7070 set. Bryan's set is absolutely stunning and I would love to own a set like that. But for me, it is currently out of reach. I had decided that for my 7070, I had the following overall goal:
Build a 7070 where all of the major details of each coin were visible.
For me then, this means that I am looking for coins graded VF or better. I will accept coins with some minor problems such as light old cleanings, rim bumps, light corrosion, etc. if the coin still has a pleasing and natural appearance.
I'd love to build a 7070 for example in AU but I'd rather build one in VF or better and complete it then have an AU set that I would never realistically complete.
What I guess I am saying is that Bryan set a goal he could achieve and so it's a great goal and a great set. You just need to figure out what would be a great goal and great set for you. And I think you need to consider what you can realistically achieve.
Good luck - those early 19th century coins are tough but beautiful!
Ken
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1083 Posts |
All that being said, I also prefer high grade, problem free coins. As I mentioned in a previous post, my tastes have changed over the years with a rise in income, and knowledge. One thing I have always enjoyed about the Community is there is room for newer collectors with less income. We want to give them advice based on our own experience to go slow and save up for the best you can afford, but messages of delayed gratification are usually wasted. You just have to go through the process. Coin collecting is not a religion (maybe?), it is a hobby and it should be fun for all of us. Peace!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2269 Posts |
The lowest grade coin I ever purchased was a raw G-4 1916 D Mercury dime. I would love to be able to purchase a better grade, but my budget doesn't permit me. I am not upset that I had to settle for a G-4. It was all I could afford at the time and I was still proud to add it to my collection.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6326 Posts |
 Just about the worst condition coin I ever bought was a Large Cent. It somehow still pleases me to include it with my other Large Cents though....and yeah.....there are a lot of coins I'd LIKE to purchase...but the higher grades are, of course, higher money.....and I don't always have the patience to wait 5 years like Bryan before I make the better purchase ! ...  I would hope no one amasses an entire collection of " low grade junk".....but pretty often it just boils down to "affordability", and, to me, these kinds of coins do have a lot of "character" and are still quite interesting.....and if a particular one happens to be silver......well...even better !..... 
Edited by eaglefoot 01/13/2010 10:36 am
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Valued Member
 United States
76 Posts |
I certainly enjoy the input from all of the forum members, offering up their experiences, suggestions, and thoughts. I also agree with Eaglefoot that even those heavily worn coins, particularly the late 18th century and very early nineteenth century ones have a lot of character and of course it is always interesting to contemplate, or maybe the word is fantasize, about what famous person in our nations history might have carried in their pocket---I say this particularly for the low mintage higher denomination coins. For the early half dollars and dollars (pre 1804) I would say the highest formal grade that I have is VF35, although for the 1802 half and dollar it would be on the high end for that grade and the others range between F12 and VF 30. The 1796 quarter is PCGS VG08 and the 1804 is probably a F15
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Replies: 29 / Views: 3,194 |
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