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 Replies: 46 / Views: 19,467 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Fred is an outside consultant, he does not work for PCGS. The graders are not allowed to buy or sell coins. When Cameron Kiefer went to work for ICG he had to give up his coin business, but he did get special permission to continue collecting Sample slabs.
As for salaries, several years back PCGS was advertising for graders and offering "up to $250K" but they have said that most don't earn nearly that much. I would expect the average is probably $150K or a little less. And when you consider where PCGS is located, that is really not as great a salary as it sounds. As for asking the graders, most companies have rules against discussing salaries, especially if each person has his own "contract" with the company because it can lead to hard feelings when one person finds out what someone else makes and they think they should be making more.
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Locked
822 Posts |
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Fred is an outside consultant, he does not work for PCGS. Honestly Conder I couldn't care less what his official capacity is. The FACT is that he can kick an error coin right on out of PCGS if he wants to and he is one the premier coin dealers in the world. It's an absolute egregious conflict of interest. |
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Locked
822 Posts |
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As for asking the graders, most companies have rules against discussing salaries, especially if each person has his own "contract" with the company because it can lead to hard feelings when one person finds out what someone else makes and they think they should be making more. Normally that's true, but publicly traded and taxpayer funded companies have a different set of rules. I still think you can find out if you know where or who to ask. I don't think they can legally keep it secret. |
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Locked
822 Posts |
http://www.pcgs.com/articles/articl...d=313&type=1Quote:
World-renowned error-coin expert Fred Weinberg will authenticate and describe every coin submitted to the new program. Weinberg has been involved in mint errors since 1965, and brings 35 years of experience and knowledge to the mint error program. Each coin that is approved for grading will be described on the PCGS holder with up to 22 characters of information. Quote:
The new PCGS mint error program has been two years in the making. "It has taken a long time to work out all of the particulars," Montgomery noted. "The problems associated with holdering coins of such unusual shapes and sizes has now been worked out, and the addition of Fred Weinberg to our authenticating team was an important element as well. We are confident that the new mint error program will be enthusiastically received throughout the numismatic community." Sounds like he's on the payroll to me. I highly doubt he's authenticating every error coin that comes through PCGS for free.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
851 Posts |
So are you telling me that if you work for PCGS you cannot buy any coins or hold a collection of your own? Does that mean you can't attend shows either? That sounds illegal. I could see not being able to submit your own raw coins to PCGS because you could grade your coins to your benefit, but not being able to buy coins seems ridiculous.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts |
It's probably to eliminate the possibility of 'insider trading' - in this case, having insider information based on the coins one sees and grades. If someone had the only MS-70 1893-S Morgan dollar, and suddenly here come 30 more perfect ones through the grading-room door - you can bet that someone would be selling their "unique" one quick as anything before word of the 30 others hit the streets and the value of his one took a nosedive. It might be that experts asked to attribute errors or varieties aren't necessarily held to the same strict rules as the actual graders - DGS has their new "signature service" and at least one of the previous attributors was still buying and selling (at least as far I know - I didn't hear anything about him having to give up his collection, either). So maybe rules for them are less strict.. but I do see the point about possible conflicts of interest there. As for possible salaries - if they do have to list what they pay out for those, it's probably a combined total (maybe even a combined total per grader rank), and not necessarily per individual... at the least, an average could be extrapolated from the given amount. |
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Moderator
 United States
16679 Posts |
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And when you consider where PCGS is located, that is really not as great a salary as it sounds. Meaning what might I ask? PCGS is located in Orange County California. Believe me, better than L.A. County. Where would the salary be better and more attractive? swcoin.ecrater.com
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
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So are you telling me that if you work for PCGS you cannot buy any coins or hold a collection of your own? Does that mean you can't attend shows either? That sounds illegal. I could see not being able to submit your own raw coins to PCGS because you could grade your coins to your benefit, but not being able to buy coins seems ridiculous. They attend shows but only for PCGS. They do not usually let them collect coins nor deal in coins any longer. Just think about it, if you worked as a grader and one of your coins crossed your desk would you give it a better grade as say your competitors? To answer that question, we have seen dealers say their coins are a higher grade than they actually are since there have been coin dealers |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1882 Posts |
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Meaning what might I ask? PCGS is located in Orange County California. Believe me, better than L.A. County. Where would the salary be better and more attractive? I think he was referring to the high cost of living in California. |
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Valued Member
Canada
124 Posts |
There was a link to a clip on youtube that shows the PCGS process and there's more than 1 person grading each coin. At the end the grade from each person has to match or more people look at it. I can't see someone artificially increasing the rating / value of their own coin when more than 1 person grades each coin. Video - http://www.coincommunity.info/pcgs-...ocess-video/***Edited by Staff to adjust link*** |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
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How much does a grader earn? There aren't that many graders for PCGS and they sure grade a lot of coins. What kind of degree is required?
Back to the original question though, everyone continues to use only PCGS for this discussion. Considering that there are probably close to or over 100 TPGS's available, I would imagine not all follow the same procedures, rules, regualations, etc. And likewise, I don't think their salaries are also consistant between the different companies. I also wonder if a TPGS is in another country they would care about any of our laws at all. And what about those TPGS's that are supposed to be in someone's basement sort of as a side job? And as to a degree? A degree in WHAT? I suspect that no college education is a requirement but that too would be interesting to find out. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
No, there are not "close to or over 100 TPGs", there are six legitimate ones still in business that I can think of- PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG, DGS, and SEGS. Virtually everyone else that calls themselves a " TPG" is a self-slabber with blatant conflicts-of-interest(slabbing your own inventory and assigning whatever grade you feel like not based in reality) and does not belong in the conversation. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
819 Posts |
I wonder if there is a correspondence course you can take to become a grader? Or maybe one of those diploma mills that will send you a degree and certification for a few bucks.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Quote:No, there are not "close to or over 100 TPGs", there are six legitimate ones still in business that I can think of- PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG, DGS, and SEGS. Virtually everyone else that calls themselves a " TPG" is a self-slabber with blatant conflicts-of-interest(slabbing your own inventory and assigning whatever grade you feel like not based in reality) and does not belong in the conversation. Possible. However, if you go to Google and type in Third Party Grading services, there are really quite a few. In one results it stated that ebay only allows ANACS, NCS, NGC and PCGS No mention at all of ICG or SEGS. Another listing shows ICCS, PCI and numerous others acceptaable. I guess this becoms one of those my opinion sort of thing. Not sure if ebay is a reliable source of who is who and which is better at anything. Naturally just my opinion. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5619 Posts |
Excellent topic, great reading, I seem to recall a CCF member stating that "He" was asked to grade/authenticate coins, with "his" name on the label if he did the coin for a TPG'R, this being so, I wonder if He could shine some light on this subject.  If my facts are correct?  ..If this is true and I could be wrong, no disrespect intended, I thought I saw a post stating that this job was offered to him and it would have something to do with a "signature series", being people could request certain people to grade/authenticate their coins, and that person's name would also appear on the coins slab.  I would also say that I do not see this person giving up anything like selling coins, or buying coins, again if I am correct, It would appear all companies are not the same in that the rules and policies are different across the board! |
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Replies: 46 / Views: 19,467 |
First Page
Posted 02/10/2010 3:42 pm
