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 Replies: 18 / Views: 3,544 |
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New Member
United States
11 Posts |
Haven't posted much but I am on here everyday and have learned a lot. Here is my question. I see both on ebay and at coin shows, coins that dealers(?) claim to be a Mint State coin yet it is not slabbed by a TPG. In particular I have a complete set but overall in very poor grade of Standing Liberty quarters that I have had since the early sixties from the money I collected from my paper rout. I have been upgrading as much as possible. Quite often I run across coins where the dealer claims it is in MS63 condition yet ungraded. Book value may be around $250 and he is asking $139. Why would he not get this coin graded? It can't be the grading cost. Is there really some issue with this coin that a novice like me would not recognize? I've asked this question to dealers at coin shows and have gotten answers like, "I can't grade all my coins" or "Coins of this type have better eye appeal raw then in slabs". I guess I'm looking for your input to this. It's not so much that I'm concerned about paying too much for a coin. If I like it, I'll buy it. It's just a question that I have wondered about. Thanks |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4846 Posts |
its too costly. that's my answer
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Pillar of the Community
United States
615 Posts |
The only reason I would get a coin graded would be to preserve it for my collection. If I plan on selling said coin, I'd rather not throw the money into it.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
I collect coins, not plastic. For me searves no purpose. To waste money on having a coin slabbed is only usable if planning on selling.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7840 Posts |
Grading is very subjective, and anyone can say that their coin is MS63, and under improper lighting and at a particular angle, it may look UNC. When I list a coin for auction I give my opinion, and let the potential buyer make theirs.
There has been several occasions that I bid on a great looking coin, only to have it turn out to be a dud. And vice-versa, so it's kind of a wash.
Have fun!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4085 Posts |
I can think of at least three reasons: 1) The coin has been cleaned or otherwise tampered with such that the TPG will not slab it as, say, MS-63. In the past, these coins were "body-bagged" by PCGS or NGC - the TPG sent it back unslabbed as a problem coin. Now, they will slab it as "Genuine" or "Cleaned - AU-50 Details". (ANACS always did this). So, the coin may have MS-63 detail on it but has evidence of cleaning or altered toning that lowers it's value. Sometimes this can be difficult to spot - especially from an ebay picture. 2) Although I don't know the exact number, I think it can cost $20-35 dollars to submit a coin to be slabbed. For a $100 coin, it may not be worth it. 3) TPG's are a newer thing - there's a lot of coins in older collections that come to the market and if a dealer can sell it raw quickly, it might make sense to do so. Some people prefer raw coins or at least know what to look for to evaluate value. Best regards, Ken p.s.  Edited by KenKat
03/03/2010 08:49 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
Nothing beats the ability to accurately grade coins yourself. At shows I've chuckled (silently) on many occasions at the stated grade on a raw coin or a TPG mistake encapsulated in plastic. There are so many above-board and below-board reasons for sellers to grade coins a certain way they can't all be addressed here. Now, online auctions are another beast ... without the coin in-hand there had better be great pictures that leave nothing to chance. There are several sellers on ebay that have a knack for glamor photography. I won't say they doctor the pictures, but the coin looks MS66 DMPL and it's not in a slab? I never bid on these auctions, but I see others that put their complete faith in these sellers. Feedback for these sellers would indicate their customers do not know how to accurately grade and trust the seller explicitly. I've purchased PCGS and NGC-slabbed coins on ebay and returned them for refund because the coin in-hand did not fit the grade on the slab in my opinion or had other distractors not mentioned by the seller. I eat the cost of round-trip shipping for the coin, but that's better than having an ugly coin in a slab sitting around. Bottomline is you are never completely safe with raw or slabbed coins. Your only surefire protection is knowledge of the series and the ability to grade. Edited by SeatedNut
03/03/2010 09:49 am
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New Member
 United States
11 Posts |
Thanks for all the responses. I have no slabbed coins of my own only because I prefer raw coins. What you ahve all said pretty much confirms what I probably already knew. I need to gain more knowledge on how to determine the grade or condition of a paerticular coin.
Thanks again fore input
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1745 Posts |
I like to keep them in albums, (type set or by type). If I buy a slab, I will save the label after I crack it out. If I have it raw, no sense having it graded for my album.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1372 Posts |
I think it's a bit strange that people have not come to the realization that only a tiny, tiny, TINY percentage of coins have been submitted to TPGs. That means that most, as in "the vast majority"....are raw. People can't seem to wrap their minds around that fact for some reason. For some reason..."If it was any good, it'd be in a slab" creeps into their thinking, and I don't know how you arrive at that point. Coins that were owned by old timers...who could grade them themselves are passed to neophytes every single day....who know nothing of TPGs and grading. These coins, now held by the ignorant, who could care less to learn anything about them....sell them on ebay or dump them on dealers' counters. There's really no substitute for being able to assess a coin's condition for yourself. Ultimately....it's "you" that have to live with the coin and what you paid for it. My reason for not slabbing....while I was spending a hundred bucks to slab "exhibit A".....I have to leave "exhibit B" where it is, and I would rather have 2 nice raw coins than one slabbed one. I guess in a perfect world...I'd have an endless amount of cash, and I'd have everything entombed, but alas...that's not the world I live in. Chance |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I didn't read every response but I did read the OP's question. Some dealers do not feel it is worth the time and hassle to send a coin in to be graded. there is a cost in doing so and a couple hundred dollar coin may not be worth it to those dealers. They could have just bought the coins right before the show and just carried them with them hoping for a quick sale and didn't have time to get them graded before the show. There is really allot of variables that could happen for a dealer to have raw coins in their offerings. Some collectors will not buy graded coins because of the cost involved in collecting them in slabs when they feel they know how to grade themselves and don't want the plastic holder anyway. I know allot of older collectors feel this way. One told me why should he pay almost double for a coin that he can't even hold to inspect himself (he said the plastic obscures the coin because of the glare) than he would have to pay for a raw coin he can inspect and grade himself and will not have to go through the trouble to crack it out to put in his album. I have also talked to a couple dealers that said the only time they send in a coin for grading is if its worth multiple thousands of dollars or a key date and even then its just for authentication purposes for the collector to be sure its legit not for grading. There are some series of US coins I will not buy unless its either slabbed or its from a dealer I trust their opinion on authenticity and even then I make sure they have a guarantee of authenticity |
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Valued Member
United States
436 Posts |
I just don't trust them, which is why I'm working (slowly, because this is still just a hobby) on a hardware/software combo to accuratly grade coins... yes I know it has been tried and failed before. Mainly because of "eye appeal" but I think I have found a way to quantify "luster" in the software...
Not trying to hijack..
So back to why I don't trust them.
You know that ANACS/NGC/PCGS are not individuals right? Which means you have multiple people grading. Grading is supposed to be fixed but it has always been subjective because different people may focus on different things. What happens if the same coin is early in the shift and again at the end of the shift? Will it grade the same? Will the grader be as sharp as he was in the morning? Does the Grader have a cold which might make him sneeze and "fly speck" a bunch of coins?
There are too many variables with TPGs for me to trust them.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2049 Posts |
Quote:I didn't read every response but I did read the OP's question. Some dealers do not feel it is worth the time and hassle to send a coin in to be graded. there is a cost in doing so and a couple hundred dollar coin may not be worth it to those dealers. They could have just bought the coins right before the show and just carried them with them hoping for a quick sale and didn't have time to get them graded before the show. There is really allot of variables that could happen for a dealer to have raw coins in their offerings. Some collectors will not buy graded coins because of the cost involved in collecting them in slabs when they feel they know how to grade themselves and don't want the plastic holder anyway. I know allot of older collectors feel this way. One told me why should he pay almost double for a coin that he can't even hold to inspect himself (he said the plastic obscures the coin because of the glare) than he would have to pay for a raw coin he can inspect and grade himself and will not have to go through the trouble to crack it out to put in his album. I have also talked to a couple dealers that said the only time they send in a coin for grading is if its worth multiple thousands of dollars or a key date and even then its just for authentication purposes for the collector to be sure its legit not for grading. There are some series of US coins I will not buy unless its either slabbed or its from a dealer I trust their opinion on authenticity and even then I make sure they have a guarantee of authenticity Good post...besides the already stated obvious reason of the cost to do this, there's also the factor of the coin being out of their inventory during the one month timeframe while the coin is being shipped, graded and shipped back to the dealer. A dealer can't sell what's not in stock, and a coin in the process of being graded is not available for sale. Of course a dealer could tell the customer that the coin is being graded and to check back, but in reality it's a potentially lost sale. Also, not all collectors like slabbed coins, so a dealer needs to have raw coins to satisfy that market. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
581 Posts |
Quote from Chancellor Sutler: I think it's a bit strange that people have not come to the realization that only a tiny, tiny, TINY percentage of coins have been submitted to TPGs. That means that most, as in "the vast majority"....are raw. People can't seem to wrap their minds around that fact for some reason.
For some reason..."If it was any good, it'd be in a slab" creeps into their thinking, and I don't know how you arrive at that point."Well, I don't think people realize what a tiny, tiny, TINY percentage of coins haven't been cleaned, whizzed, polished, fooled with, altered, "improved". People can't seem to wrap their minds around that fact for some reason! Back atch'ya!    |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1372 Posts |
True...coins with "original skin" are becoming increasingly rare. I have but a handful, and they are strictly not for sale. Those are the pieces I will hold long term.
That still doesn't mean that if it's not in a slab, it's junk. It means it's not in a slab.
Chance
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Pillar of the Community
United States
613 Posts |
As far as I'm concerned, there are alot of darn good specialists out there who will charge $3-$5 per coin to authenticate and grade them for you. If you need a variety or error specialist they're out there too. The best thing to do is learn how to grade your coins, it might take years, but its worth it.
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Replies: 18 / Views: 3,544 |
Posted 03/03/2010 08:25 am
