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 Replies: 21 / Views: 8,967 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
686 Posts |
Anyone else seeing this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...:RTQ:US:1123Real or fake? The E in DEI looks as if its been flattened to me. I did some analysis in Photoshop, and made the bottom of the E parallel to the top of the E, and then connected the bottom of the E to the bottom of the I. The top Maltese jewel then appears to fall below this line. I am convinced it isn't real, but was looking for others thoughts. (My gut instinct told me that if it was real, the owner would have sent it to ICCS already). |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
9862 Posts |
They are both obverse 2.The seller should learn the difference and not rely on nebulous "points to" and "falls below an imaginary line" distinctions made in older Charlton's.Obverse1 has a prominent jewel in the Maltese cross,even spacing of the letters T-I-A,and a less prominent indent above the lower lip.
Edited by DBM
03/04/2010 11:42 pm
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Pillar of the Community
1844 Posts |
So DBM you are saying that people should not use the descriptions in the books .. How else can you figure it out unless YOU have one to compare to....... And jp86 I mean be serious You can do anything you want in Photoshop and to go through what you say you did seems pretty much nonsense.. You altered the pic to make it what you wanted? Common guys...... Take a real close look at the Maltese cross.... Yes they are both different .. And as far as why he did not send to ICCS.. well thats simple.... Because he put it out there for all collectors to see.... Did you not read his description.. A ridiculous BUY IT NOW he states,He knows no one will buy it uncertified.. and once the auction is over guess what? ICCS will be getting the coin and then its off to auction... BTW I have seen this coin in hand and if I had the cash to make an offer I would have....
But everyone wil see it differently and with such a rarity everyone will try to dissect the coin and find anything they can to disprove it.. NOt just on this but on any major rare coin.... My opinion anyways is coin is what it is......
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
9862 Posts |
Here is an OBV1,compare it to the seller's coin,and you will see the difference in the Maltese cross,the upper lip line and the T-I-A spacing and alignment  Edited by DBM
03/08/2010 02:22 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1248 Posts |
Hello,
Charlton book says that 2 TWO different portrait versions of the Obv 1 have been identified.....
does anyone know the difference? It might just be....? right.
In a way I have to side with artdio. there are few people here knowledgable when it comes to real old rare and old Canadian varieties. Some like just to comment, others in fact do know....but way too few really know. DBM is very knowledgable, and so are a few others. But it seems EVERYONE knows everything about Canadian Tire coins and colored butterflies and hockey players...very few really concentrate on the real coins.
Just wonder WHY?
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Pillar of the Community
1844 Posts |
I have to agree with with what HHH said.. I copied both pics and if you do the same you will see that the cross is placed exactly at the same place.. The lips is the same ( 1 a little more worn ) As for the TIA , common Take a look at both coins.. Both have different wear and therefor the spacing can be compromised due to perhaps more flattening on one than the other..
What you guys fail to show is the neckline on the example.. Where as the seller does show all... in perfect comparision to the OBV 2..... Does your example have a rounded neckline and please do not say to Ignore Charltons descrip.... It is there for a reason.. and with not 1 OVB 1 graded whos says that both coins are not the same.. And HH said it right there are 2 different versions.....so who is to say it is not in fact that.......
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
9862 Posts |
I finally have time to reply properly to this topic. The key to differentiating OBV1 and OBV2 is the alignment of the T-I-A in GRATIA and nothing else.The neckline,position of the cross,hairline etc.are all secondary and perhaps variable. Die production in the early Victoria series was much different than it is today,no reproduction machines were used in making dies for the early 25cents.L.C.Wyon made one engraving in atual size for the 25cent series.The portrait was punched in to a master die and the lettering of the legend was hand punched into the master die.From the master die one or more master puches were made and more dies and punches were made from these to create the production dies. In the Victoria 25 cent series three different master dies were used.One for OBV1,one forOBV2,3,and4,and one for OBV5.Because the legends in the master dies were hand punched,the relationship of the letters to the rim denticles and to each other varies for each master die.We can see by this relationship that there were 3 and only 3 master dies used.See my pics and look closely at the T-I-A,and you should be able to see the differences. By definition all coins with the same obverse must originate from the same master die.The coin in question(the first coin pictured here)has the legend that comes from the second master die,not the first,and thus cannot be OBV1,though it may be an as yet unrecognized variety of OBV2  . First master die OBV1  . . Second master die OBV2 (OBV3 and OBV4 also originate from this master die)  . . Third master die OBV5  At about the time OBV5 was introduced (1886) The Royal Mint obtained and used a reprduction machine effectively putting an end to all the obverse varieties. |
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Valued Member
Australia
138 Posts |
I managed to pick up an 1872 H 25 Cent coin at a local coin show today. Yes, I checked, it is definitely obverse 2.  I noticed that the 'A' in Victoria has been double struck with the second strike noticeably lower than the first. Is that normal for this coin?   |
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Valued Member
Australia
138 Posts |
I just wanted to bump this thread and see if anyone out there had an 1872 25 Cent piece with a double punched 'A' in Victoria like my example above.
I picked up another one of these today, similar grade, but this one is not double punched like my earlier coin.
I'm 99% sure that the coin I bought today is the Large 2 reverse while the first one I bought is the Small 2 reverse which might explain the difference.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1471 Posts |
Yes, I have one with the doubled V out of about 25.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
9862 Posts |
I have two of these.On another forum I read that these aren't rare,yet since your original post here I have only found two on ebay,bought one and was outbid on the other.Someone must be hoarding all of this variety,because,from recent postings on this forum,A/V's which are incredibly rare seem to be found more frequently;) Edited by DBM
08/20/2011 10:04 am
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Valued Member
Australia
138 Posts |
Thanks, it's interesting to learn about all these different varities! So does this we mean we have double struck 'V' and double struck 'A'?
I need to move back to Canada, I certainly don't come across enough old stuff here. When it turns up it's usually VG at best where I really only want to add Victorias/Edwards better than F to my collection.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
Lovely purchase on the 1872 A/A in VICTORIA.
I have the following #s of these based on a sample of 200:
1872 A/A Victoria - 5 (1EF, 2F-VF, 2VG) - estimated abundance is 1:40
1872 N/N Canada - 4 (1AU, 2VG, 1G) - estimated abundance is 1:50
1872 A/V Victoria with N/N Canada - 1 (G) - estimated abundance is 1:200 or rarer...
sorry Zonad...I thought I had 3, but 2 were false alarms (evidence of early die break without the full blown A/V - I guess they dont count)
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1554 Posts |
 Does the 1872H, Obv. #1 quarter even exist? Charlton cat. has no price listing for one. The latest I.C.C.S./P.C.G.S. Population Report's have none on file. C.C.N. Trends don't have any prices listed for them? I've never seen an authentic one on E-bay nor in hand. So I wonder if this coin could be like the mystical Sasquatch everyone claims exists?  Glenn  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
9862 Posts |
The Sasquatch is more likely to exist tham a 1872H OBV1
I believe the 1871H OBV1 is just as likely to be mythical,all I've seen so far have been misattributed
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Valued Member
Canada
278 Posts |
Okay, it may not exist, but one would think that the RCM could verify that, yes / no? Has anyone ever asked the mint a question and received an answer? |
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Replies: 21 / Views: 8,967 |
Posted 03/07/2010 2:23 pm
