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Valued Member
United States
74 Posts |
I have seen information concerning the authentication of 8 reales on this forum. I have an 8 reale Ferdinand the VII 1809,Mo, TH, 27 grams, 40 mm and the edge overlaps twice at 180 degrees apart. From your posts so far it looks genuine. I took the coin to a local coin shop and had their expert look at it and he said it was genuine just by looking at it - he has a lot of years in the business. I am concerned because the coin seems to have the grip marks I have seen described - diagonal filing mark lines on the rim as if some one filed it to test it to make sure it was genuine. The rim has the square and circles design that also seem to be genuine. My concern is that the rim design does not meet up perfectly when they overlap - the rim design seems to be to the left of the rim on half of the coin and on the right of the rim on the other half of the coin so that when they meet at the two overlap points 180 degrees apart the overlap is off center. The rim design on each half of the coin looks good (squares look good and circles look good) and is placed nicely - straight but slightly off center - on the rim as it goes around the coin. I have also searched for pictures of the coin KM# 110 and from the pictures I have seen on-line the coin very closely resembles the pictures with a very slight variation of the forehead (this might be my imagination as I am trying very hard through multiple photographs to determine if the obverse is exactly as some of the photographs I have seen.) I have been able to match the reverse to my satisfaction and have seen the exact coin (another one of course not the one I purchased) on ebay. Do you believe from what I have described that this coin is genuine or a very good counterfeit? Edited by rayhaldo2
05/14/2010 11:25 am
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Valued Member
 United States
74 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
We need pictures so we can render an opinion. Here are pictures of one of mine, does yours look similar? As for the edge, mine has some spots where it looks like "file marks" or damage on the edge but nothing that looks like swamperbob's description of "grip marks" that are evenly spaced and parallel. See his edge design diagram in the prior post "Pictures of 8 Reales Counterfeit Edge Details"   |
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Valued Member
United States
74 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
74 Posts |
My marks on the edge are not evenly spaced and parallel - they do look more like filing marks. I will take some pictures and post them. I tried to take some pictures earlier today but they did not come out good. My obverse portrait is not exactly as yours on my coin. If you look at my last post and go to ebay it will give you an idea of what my coin looks like. I wonder if there were multiple dies used? |
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Valued Member
United States
74 Posts |
After reading through swamperbob's description of 'grip marks' - "They sometimes have distinctive grip marks - diagonal slashes that are visible on top of the design on HALF of the edge - The grip marks are usually cross the entire edge side to side. They are also usually single lines with a physical separation that is approximately the same length." My marks do not run across the entire edge side to side - they only run halfway across the edge and are not evenly spaced. Most likey some 'post strike damage of some sort' as swamperbob put it.
My only concern at this point is the obverse portrait. I would welcome anyone' help/comments on the authenticity of the coin.
I am still trying to get good pictures of the obverse, reverse and edge to post for people to comment on.
I am new to the forum and would like to thank swamperbob for the information provided that has helped me to go through the process of determining the authenticity of my 8 reale.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts |
 swamperbob's posts are always very informative. I go back and re-read them frequently. Looking forward to the pictures! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
The dies used to make the 1809 transitional coins were hand engraved so the portraits may not be identical. However, I am bothered by the appearance of the ebay coin. The edge as described sounds correct. I would like to see pictures of the actual coin. |
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Valued Member
United States
74 Posts |
  This is the coin! Edited by rayhaldo2
05/14/2010 5:29 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
The coin you posted as "this is the coin" looks fine. The ebay coin looks very "iffy". |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
Based on what I see - and the comments you made initially - I would believe it is most likely real. I am hesitant to say for sure because the picture is so small. If you can send a larger picture to me directly, I might be able to be more certain. Send picture to swamperbob22@aol.com
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
Swamperbob, you are correct that the 1808-1811 transitional Ferd VII coins have a variety of portraits, my favorite being the Lima 1808 and 1809 that have a head like a space alien. I have scanned a small group of Mo coins to show some of the variety just within my own collection. All of these coins have correct weight and correct edge.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
jfransch- Very nice group! What I find very interesting about 8's minted with this bust is that the eye of the emperor seems to vary quite noticeably. Also, would it be possible for you to post a larger picture of the 1808 that is the second from the right on the bottom row? That one seems to have heavily accented eyelids.
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Valued Member
United States
74 Posts |
I will resize my new pictures and post in the morning.
Edited by Rayhaldo
05/15/2010 01:04 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
Here is a larger more detailed scan. This coin has very pronounced eyes and lips, I have only ever seen one other example with this bust, it was much lower grade. The coin weighs 26.99 gr and has perfect edge except for several planchet flaws on the edge.   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
jfransch- Wow! That is unusual-looking. I really must admit that if I saw that coin for sale I would really be quite skeptical. But, hey, if it is of the proper weight, has the right edge and overlaps, & is silver, then it is probably ok. Do you know why there was such a variety of portrait types even from a single mint? It just seems odd that die variation would be that pronounced.
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Replies: 37 / Views: 8,774 |
Posted 05/13/2010 10:28 pm
