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 Replies: 33 / Views: 8,381 |
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Valued Member
United States
321 Posts |
I've come to understand that not all VAMs add value to the coin. How am I supposed to know which ones add and which ones do not add value?
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Valued Member
United States
84 Posts |
I know on vamworld they have a rarity scale: Rarity scale. The rarity scale identifies how likely you are to encounter the listed VAM "in the wild". R-1 = Common (Tens of Millions) R-2 = Not so Common (Several Million) R-3 = Scarce (Hundreds of Thousands) R-4 = Very Scarce (Tens of Thousands) R-5 = Rare (Several Thousand) R-6 = Very Rare (Several Hundred) R-7 = Extremely Rare (Few Tens) R-8 = Unique or Nearly Unique (Several) At the top of the page for each VAM they give it a rating and it gives you a better idea of how rare they are, that's what I use to judge any added value. I'm sure some of the pro's can give you a better idea. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1551 Posts |
The (R) scale is important too look at but the (I) Interest scale is also as important. If you have a very rare type with no interest in it then their may only be a small premium on it. On some type's the grade has as much too do with the premium as the VAM it's self. On some of the more common type Hot 50 and Top 100 the best grade known is MS-62. With them being collected in registered sets, A HIGH grade or TOP Pop can bring a very large Premium! Edited by twohawks
07/07/2010 12:49 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
that is a great question I might add....As in many items, its what the buyer wants to pay for it to fill his illustrius collection.....AS IS rareities of any sort....the SSDC if I have that right has the lists of vams and a price guide so you can know if you have something or not......I'm to broke to be a member,,, but perhaps some members here can give you some more information...the guide is the VAM view price guide.. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
The most comprehensive listing of VAM sales and prices realized is the SSDC (Society of Silver Dollar Collectors) semi-annual price list. It's currently in its 11th printing (got my Jun 2010 copy yesterday  ). Two stalwarts in the VAM community put this together (Logan McKechnie and Ash Harrison). The Forward to the document is heavily caveatted about the volatility in VAM pricing, but tempered with a bit of experience and common sense, it's the best thing out there! SSDC membership is $12 annually. |
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New Member
United States
2 Posts |
Finding a discovery piece will also ensure a premium as those that come after it, will not be as valuable as "The discovery piece"
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1213 Posts |
Good info in this chain. I've got a collection of Morgan's that my dad started back in the 1960's. I'll get some pics out here at some point and hopefully get an education on VAMs.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1551 Posts |
We all look forward too seeing them!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
VAM prices should be viewed with a healthy skepticism. Part of the equation is someone has to pay the (inflated) price for it. Without that, the VAM View price list is meaningless. There just aren't enough buyers currently in the market place to support (long term) the (higher) prices.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
Quote:VAM prices should be viewed with a healthy skepticism. Part of the equation is someone has to pay the (inflated) price for it. Without that, the VAM View price list is meaningless. There just aren't enough buyers currently in the market place to support (long term) the (higher) prices. How is this different than any other commodity pricing? Prices reflect willingness of the consumer to spend that amount. If there is no consumer support, the price drops. You do the community and the OP a disservice with your prejudice ... "inflated" "not enough buyers in the market", etc. How are VAM prices "inflated" if that is the price the collector is willing to pay? If this is in reference to the increased value over non-attributed pieces, then duh, it's a byproduct of rarity and collector interest. I have seen exponential growth in VAM interest since my introduction in 2007 and tend not agree with your predictions. The guide is a compilation of "actual prices paid" for these VAMs in the condition indicated, not a guess. It is updated semi-annually to reflect market trends for sales and it's currently in the 11th edition. Quite a bit of research has gone into it and after using it for nearly three years I call it the best tool available. I would heartily recommend the collector do their own research and use this price list as an additional tool. Steps down from soapbox ... |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Quote:
I've come to understand that not all VAMs add value to the coin. How am I supposed to know which ones add and which ones do not add value? I think that 'value' is the keyword that you mentioned here. There are probably 5000 VAM varieties. From a dealer's point of view, value is added to all vams. From the standpoint of the average collector, value is added only to those vams that they consider 'interesting' because of clashes or breaks, vams that are generally considered rare, and vams that are conspicuously high priced due to the interest level of the VAM community. With over 5000 varieties to sift through, it is a very difficult task to know which ones to pick out as worthy of your money. You will be given a vast array of answers to your question, depending on who you ask it of. Since you pose the question here though, I assume that you are a virgin lamb wading into a crocodile infested river. Unless you have deep pockets, an excessive amount of time to devote to staring through a microscope, the stamina to endure frustration beyond your wildest dreams, the patience of a Saint, and can withstand the gut wrenching feeling that accompanies being burned repeatedly, I would suggest that you latch onto either OZ or the Nut (both are extremely nice people, both very knowledgeable, and probably willing to teach those who may be willing to learn), and accept what either of them may say as gospel. (They both know their stuff, even though it may appear that they are at odds here). Take careful note of the VAM rarity scale shown above. Compare it to the Sheldon rarity scale used for nearly all other types of coins, and learn the differences, which are quite significant. Take the lead in your VAM education, do your own research 'as much as possible', don't rely on anyone to give you 'all' of the answers (this gets old for those that you ask questions of, and is often frowned upon). If you have what it takes to become a vammer, you are a better and stronger person than I. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
Quote:
(They both know their stuff, even though it may appear that they are at odds here) Naw, no animosity to Oz, just exercising that "Fair and Balanced" thingy. |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Now 'THAT' puts a smile on my face again.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
Age demographics are against vamming. Most vammers are over fifty years of age (baby boomers). The baby boomer ratio is 5 boomers to 1 generation X that follow the boomers. That 5-1 ratio is very significant. The Baby boomers represent the greatest wage earning group the world has ever seen. So just to stay even, for every boomer lost (passes away)there needs to be the same number of generation X or younger to come into the market place. So unless generation X has an epiphany and large new numbers come into the market place the VAM market will likely slowly go stagnant. Periodically the question gets asked how many vammers are there? Vamworld has six hundred members. Ash Harrison, the president of the SSDC (silver dollar society) estimates 1,000 vammers overall. This after vamming has been with us for over forty years. How many of them are serious collectors? Estimated numbers vary between one hundred fifty to two hundred. How many purchase duplicate vams? That answer becomes a bit problematic as it unknown. In the PCGS Morgan dollar 328 coin super set which has all dates, mint marks and all listed varieties of top 100, hot 50 and hit list 40 coins, only thirteen sets are over 50%. Two of those sets belong to Lloyd Gabbert, AKA 'California'. I participate in the super set registry. By the way, not all prices listed in the vamview price guide are actual prices realized. Logan McKethnie one of the authors of the guide says that some (prices) are best guess estimations. I am an active vammer and I try not to be prejudiced in my remarks. People entering into the vamming hobby should know all of the relevant facts to make informed decisions. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
well said, Vams are a commodity like every thing else. buying or selling anything takes a lot of research to know if your getting a good price, and just like the stock market trends can change and so the prices can change, Coins are no different.... the more commonly accepted coins on the main lists are probably safer than collecting only that 1887_ VAM 19B R7 coin that no ones interested in, It was a great find but I wouldn't have paid more that the usual coin value knowing its not on anyone's scope. It takes a lot of time and effort to get to know whats worth collecting even then the grading is so subjective that one has to wonder at times.....weather its a VAM or just a Morgan...getting a good price is most important... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1285 Posts |
Some questions and my 2 cents.
What variables make up "R" and "I"?
Has the Top 100 or the various hit lists changed? (Coins going in and being replaced by another etc)
My 2 cents below and not to offend anyone.
"I" is some what self explanatory but the issue I see here is the herd mentality.
Also as a new comer into this arena what I notice is the vast ignorance of this topic (VAM'ing) and the amount of $'s it takes just to collect Morgan's. This "barrier to entry" will keep a big segment of the collectors out.
As per me - I am staying with O mm's and others if I see something that's interesting.
Peace
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Replies: 33 / Views: 8,381 |
Posted 07/07/2010 12:48 am
