Knowledge Is King?

I was kind of enjoying the peace and quiet.

Can't answer the first but there are numerous examples of wide-reeding imparted by non-standard collars. 1878 7TF rev of 79 VAM 224 (168 reed count) comes to mind as the first. There are also numerous 1921-P examples.

Forgot to add picture. I've heard these posts are worthless without pictures.

The Morgan & Orr Press



And a Reeded Collar

I'm always awed by photos of old presses. It's hard to believe they could apply the pressure to cause metals to almost melt and flow into the dies. Thanks!!

Having heard of the collar so often its nice to see one, and find it unusual to think that it could break, having the reeding within the interior walls... I see there are no moving parts, SO....am I to assume that the planchet in a sense is "sheared" edges cut away as it is pressed into the dies? or is the planchet slightly smaller than the collar and expands under the die pressure?(seems a likely guess)
Never had to think about that, or think for that matter......

Yes Gene.....You have successfully pierced one half of the crux of my questions. If you look closely at the collar, it is not actually as thick as it seems...the photo shows it sitting on its base.
The pupose of the base is to act as a spacer allowing upward movement of the lower die's main shank as only the neck and face will fit through the collar.
For a Morgan dollar, the business part of the collar is approximately 1 1/2" in diameter by 1/4" thick.

The collar was made in a similar fashion to a coin die. The steel plate is annealed, while soft, a hole punch is used to punch an approximately 1 1/2" hole through the metal plate. Just as hubbing required repetitive stikes, so does this punch require repetitive strikes for successful blowout through the other side of the plate. (Remember that).

After the hole is all the way through the plate, another tool similar to the hole punch is used in the same fashion. It is called a swag, and is centered over the hole left by the hole punch. The swag is slightly tapered from a larger top to a smaller bottom. It is also toothed, so as it enters the hole left by the hole punch, it leaves (or shears) mirror image teeth into the hole in the collar plate. Since the swag is also tapered, it leaves the collar plate not only with teeth, but with a bottom that is slightly smaller in diameter than the top (swag entrance site). At completion, the collar is toothed, and its inner diameter is tapered down from top to bottom.

The reason for this tapering is to allow the lower die to raise and eject (push) the newly struck coin approximately 1/8" up and out of the collar in which its circumference was formed.




Correct Gene, breaking of the collar would be a very unusual event. It would require the fracture of the press' main arch, which actually did occur on at least two separate occasions that I am aware of.

Correct again Gene, no moving parts to the collar. It is fixed (screwed using three screws to the strike table of the press).

Wrong, 2 out of 3 isn't bad though, and you were certainly on the right track. The diameter of the planchet is slightly smaller than the diameter of the collar. The feeder fingers push the planchet over the top of the collar, the planchet falls into the collar, and lands on the face of the lower die which is completely surrounded by the inner walls of the collar. The drop is about 1/8".

The upper die (acting as the hammer) is slammed down onto the planchet, (which acts as a buffer for the lower die which acts as the anvil). Upon strike, the lower die is at its maximum retraction, but immediately after strike, it raises approximately 1/8" to eject the coin from the collar, and then retracts to anvil position again.

I'm getting way off topic here....The planchet is not sheared by the collar, nor does it expand. It is pressure 'squished out' (like playdough) to fill the toothed area of the collar.

I having some knowledge of machining grabbed the digital micrometer.. About 1/1,000 taper....Not that I am doubting your analysis, but rather I am familiar with the making of molds, where something is made and without some kind of taper you just can't get the article out of the mold, even if it has mold release.. Another interesting point is how the color was made...they didn't have the lazer or high pressure water cutting systems back then, but to the basics of punching through metal , they would not have taken more than one punch in my mind, as the metal would be soft steel, "swagged" and milled to the proper thickness and then hardened by temporing techniques..so I don't believe they needed more than one punch,
....So I am thinking your question would be addressing, IS there a known VAM, where the COLLAR..which is in a sense. a "DIE" and therefore subjects to abnormalities.....equal in VAM designation as any other die........as in perhaps a collar was improperly prepared and used....

Yet are not strike thru's on the surface or reverse? something caught or material pressed into the coin in the striking process? not collar related?

Yes, you are correct about the strike thru not being collar related Gene.

Dave was not inferring that.

Railroad rims are not actually collar related either. They are caused by the failure of the lower die to fully retract from the ejection of the previous coin, and the planchet is not completely deposited in the collar, but only at partial depth.

by the way, as I re-read...the final thickness was 1/8th of an inch or the thickness of the dollar/collar, it would not make any sence to anneal the collar before its dimentions were finalized. So shaping/sizing or punching should have been done before before the hardening and placement into production....