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Looking Into The Future.....comments?

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Pillar of the Community
United States
2600 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2010  5:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim1953 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I for one am concerned about high quality, rare coins being able to maintain the pace they have set over the last 50 yr.

Recently, a member posted a pic of a Red Book, from 1964 I believe, and it showed the price of a 1909-S VDB. For that coin's value to continue growing at the pace set in the past 46 yrs, it will cost in excess of $200,000 in 2055. We have seen the housing bubble pop. A friend of mine owns his own real estate company and he has wondered out loud recently if we will ever see a house worth $300,000 in 2007 ever be worth that again in our life time. From that prospective, could we be on a coin bubble?
Jim
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basicbob101's Avatar
United States
819 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2010  3:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basicbob101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the SDHTF, and you have only gold coins or bars or whatever; how will you get change if you need to buy a loaf of bread? To me silver would be less a problem in bartering than with gold. how much of a 1 oz gold bar or a double eagle do you cut off for a loaf of bread and gallon of milk?
Edited by basicbob101
08/12/2010 6:26 pm
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2010  6:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Recently, a member posted a pic of a Red Book, from 1964 I believe, and it showed the price of a 1909-S VDB. For that coin's value to continue growing at the pace set in the past 46 yrs, it will cost in excess of $200,000 in 2055. We have seen the housing bubble pop. A friend of mine owns his own real estate company and he has wondered out loud recently if we will ever see a house worth $300,000 in 2007 ever be worth that again in our life time. From that prospective, could we be on a coin bubble?
Jim

Jim: If you look at the prices of say Milk over the last 20 or more years you would see not a massive change. Same with a loaf of bread. Same with a pad of paper.
Contrary to that is the prices of a car which keep going up, up, up. Houses too have gone through some ruff times but compare the prices of a house with 30 or more years ago. Up, up, up.
There are reasons for such increases or stable prices. To make a car or house it takes people and the wages have gone up, up, up so the end product must reflect that increase. Items like Bread, Milk, Butter, a Hamburger really haven't escalated to those same excessive extents. The reason is more productive methods in farming although the truckers that deliver those products have had some substantial raises.
Now with coins there is a completely different situation. To use that 1909S VDB as an example. They don't make them anymore. Well not legally that is. So regardless of means of production, raises in salaries, transportation means being reduced, There just isn't any more of that coin being made or found. Next there is that thing called population explosions. Imagine the population in the USA in 1909 compared to today. I don't know how many were in the USA in 1909 but today there is approximately 300,000,000 people. Soon there will be 400 million, then 500 million, etc. And still there is only 484,000 1909S VDB's out there. Now what if only 1% of the people collect coins today. That's 3 million and if only 10% collect Lincoln Cents, that's 300,000 people that want a coin that had 484,000 minted and no one knows how many have been lost.
To make a long story even longer consider the future of possibly 500,000,000 people in the USA, add many more millions in other countries. And imagine how many want a coin that has only 484,000 minted.
By then that coin will sell for a real, real, real lot.
Or maybe everyone will loose interest I'm coins.
Edited by just carl
08/12/2010 7:03 pm
Valued Member
United States
320 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2010  8:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Secret Argent Man to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wouldn't go for bars/etc-- coins, you might get lucky and get a good coin or have your colletion appreciate higher than melt--- whereas with a bar, you're effectively limited to melt always.

Here's the thing about coin collecting and values, though... rarity does not equal increased value. It's the combination of rarity + other people's desire to own that coin.

As much as anything, when looking at the future value of a given coin, you have to consider the future desireability. 1909S VDB will most likely always be there, just because it's a storied coin. Other cents, maybe yes maybe no. Think of the Morgans and their VAMs...some are going for crazy money, while other rarer ones are not. It's just what's "in" right now.

SO...getting back to the original question I'd wager that a safe bet is that silver coinage will always be popular and desireable, ditto for beautiful coins. So were I looking at this for investment/future purposes I'd buy all the mid-to-high Morgans, Standing Liberties and Walking Liberties I could. Maybe some Mercury dimes too....

I wouldn't focus on the currently-desired dates, mint marks/vams so much as I would just a nice coin at a reasonable price. Supplement some with ASE's (which incidentally can go in an IRA)....

I'd probably stay away from Roosevelt dimes, Washington quarters and franklin/Kennedy halves just because they're more recent and not as pretty.

The other thing, in an "end of the world" scenario, (yeah right) is that to a non-collector (ie most anyone you'd probably be bartering with) an older coin is perceived as more valuable even if it's not. So even a common-date mercury might get you more than a 1949-S roosevelt.

Oh, and last... no paper gold or paper silver... etf's are not a good thing.
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coinshopworker's Avatar
United States
61 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2010  9:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinshopworker to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Advantage of bullion over 90% coins is that the bullion clearly states the quantity involved. Most people don't know how much silver is in a 1963 quarter, but a round that says ".999 fine silver one troy ounce" is understood by all. And no 1099 forms for you ETF fans.
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wolf-n-wa's Avatar
United States
602 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2010  9:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wolf-n-wa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Collect as a hobby not a retiement plan. The only thing I hoarde is ammo. WOLF
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 08/13/2010  11:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

I wouldn't go for bars/etc-- coins, you might get lucky and get a good coin or have your colletion appreciate higher than melt--- whereas with a bar, you're effectively limited to melt always.


I think your wrong there. I know a guy that owns a bar and he has customers in there all night long and me too sometimes.

Quote:
Collect as a hobby not a retiement plan. The only thing I hoarde is ammo. WOLF

That too can back fire. I have been saving 7.63 Mouser Ammon for my Bolo Handle Mauser for a long, long time. It started to turn green and now barely has the power to get the slug out of the barrel.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2600 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2010  08:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim1953 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Carl,
An interesting caveat to this came from public radio, yesterday. They for some reason were talking about the coin show in Boston. After discussing items you could see, etc, they mentioned that there were about 200,000 serious coin collectors in the US today. Don't know where they got their numbers, but interesting. I thought there would be more.
Jim
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Waredu's Avatar
United States
397 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2010  09:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Waredu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Carl,

A few posts back you mention how prices of goods have gone up appreciably for things like cars and houses due to wage increases and the like. You also mention certain items where the prices have not gone up - such as bread and milk.

The problem here is that our government manipulates and regulates the prices of farm goods such as corn, wheat, soybeans, milk, etc. Some farmers are paid to leave their ground fallow - while others are paid because they use their land. This, along with improvements in farming, is what has kept the prices of food low.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2010  2:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Carl,
An interesting caveat to this came from public radio, yesterday. They for some reason were talking about the coin show in Boston. After discussing items you could see, etc, they mentioned that there were about 200,000 serious coin collectors in the US today. Don't know where they got their numbers, but interesting. I thought there would be more.
Jim

Just shows you how rich those 200,000 people are. For example Whitman sells virtually Millions of the Red Book every year although many right here on this forum claim they only buy one once in a while. If you go to the Whitman site and look up their other books, you would see lots and lots of them and all for those 200,000 people.
Whitman, Dansco, Littleton and many, many others make tons of Albums and Folders for those 200,000 people every year too. Every coin show, coin store, hobby place that deals with coins has plastic rolls, holders, cleaning stuff, etc and all for those 200,000 people.
Of course that radio station knows what they are saying after all eveyone can see how those 200,000 thousand buy all that stuff.
Interesting when you consider 300,000,000 people in the USA alone and that 200,000 on the internet buying and selling coins every day.
Sure wish I was one of them.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2010  2:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

The problem here is that our government manipulates and regulates the prices of farm goods such as corn, wheat, soybeans, milk, etc. Some farmers are paid to leave their ground fallow - while others are paid because they use their land. This, along with improvements in farming, is what has kept the prices of food low.


Poor subject with my family. Both myself and my wife are from farming backgrounds. All are giving up since what you say just isn't so.
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