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Copper Hoarding - What's The Realistic Run Up?

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United States
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 Posted 09/16/2010  09:56 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add curtism1234 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***

I posted a question on buying fed / customer rolls another subforum here, but I had a followup that fits better on this one.



In doing searches here, I didn't find any opinions on the following

Searching boxes of pennies takes a lot of time but the payoff is you get the copper pennies for face value.
Buying the seperated coppers on ebay, you are paying up to twice the face value but you save hours and hours of time.

From an investment point of view just for the copper value, do you think there's enough run left to justify paying 1.5-2x now and sit on them? Would that be a good, bad, or neutral investment?
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nod2003's Avatar
United States
3294 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2010  10:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nod2003 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That really depends on if the price of copper is going to increase, and also if the US government is going to repeal the law that makes it illegal to melt the pennies. In my honest opinion, there is no compelling reason to hoard copper, because holding $1000 of copper would require 200-300 lbs of metal for a reasonable price range of copper, while doing the same with silver would only require 40-60 troy ounces (roughly 3-4 lbs). It would take a massive storage area to make any kind of real $ and be very inconvenient. If you are already sorting penny rolls for varieties or wheat cents or whatever and the extra coppers are a byproduct, then you of course may save them, I just would not expect to make hardly any $ for the time spent.
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hockingzig's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 09/16/2010  10:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hockingzig to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Of course there is no way to know how high copper will go. It all depends on how quikly worldwide demand expands in relation to available supply. China was stockpiling copper and the price went up. As the US economy incres forward ,copper is inching forward again. If you do the math a penny increases by 1 cent in metal value for about every $1.50 rise in copper price so for copper cents to be worth 5 cents in copper,copper prices will need to be about $7.50. All I know is, over the 5 years I have been "harvesting" copper from circulation the percent of copper to zinc cents has declined from an average of 30% per box to about 20% now. The window of opportunity is closing and I, for one, will harvest while I can and worry about the"investment" aspects of it when I have it in hand. This opportunity will not come around again nor will it last much longer. If you are searching cents anyway,how much more effort does it take to throw the copper aside? Just my opinion but people will run across town for a 10% discount on something and here you have a 50% discount,probably due to grow,as I said, it is a no-brainer for me. I am approaching 3000 rolls.
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United States
10284 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2010  11:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is some lyrics I am familiar with and it makes sense to me about hoarding copper.

Now I don't know but I been told
it's hard to run with the weight of gold
Other hand I heard it said
it's just as hard with the weight of lead


If copper rose to the value of 10 x face and was allowed to be melted, wouldn't it be quite a bit of a haul and take up a lot of space where saving something smaller and more valuable for it's size might be a bit more feasible?
I'd say if all you can afford to hoard is copper then fine, do it but if you can afford silver or gold, it sure would be a lot easier.
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sgtbigred's Avatar
United States
83 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2010  11:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sgtbigred to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well I am not sure about hoarding lincolns, or any other copper coins as we know the US govt bans the melting of coins.
However, copper pipe and tubing is a whole other story.
Just checked todays scrap prices, $3,48 a pound. So one would have to figure out how many Lincolns it would take to make a pound.
I would do the math, but it is too early in the morning for me to think.
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TenSense's Avatar
United States
364 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2010  11:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TenSense to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
$1.50 face of 95% copper pennies equals a pound, give or take.
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Namachieli's Avatar
United States
2120 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2010  11:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Namachieli to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
isn't it 2 rolls?
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mycrob's Avatar
United States
2602 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2010  12:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mycrob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No about 3 rolls or 150 copper coins is about right for a pound
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United States
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 Posted 09/16/2010  1:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tnwalker10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some of the investors on the talking head financial news programs have suggested hoarding copper pennies as an alternative to actually purchasing silver or gold. This way there is very little effort or expense in metals investment. Of course if the .gov doesn't allow melting for a long time, you'll be stuck with coins at face value. As Alan Greenspan once said "your savings will be confiscated through inflation."
Although there is a law against melting copper cents I would dare to say a lot are getting melted anyway. I would also say that there are a lot getting melted legally in foreign countries.
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Scooby Due's Avatar
United States
4000 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2010  1:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Scooby Due to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with all the other opinions on space/weight ratio.

That said, while I'm roll searching, I keep the coppers. In theory they are worth 2x face in bullion. So, why not? The worse that can happen is nothing ever changes and I break even. I certainly would not go out and pay 2x face for them, though. It is a potential losing proposition.

This is like the 10th copper hoarding thread I've seen in the last several months.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
189053 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2010  2:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Correct. Even though one cannot melt copper cents, they can and do trade as bullion. I would not buy any right now (for more than face), but I am keeping what I find.
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AGCoinHunter's Avatar
United States
625 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2010  3:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AGCoinHunter to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This is like the 10th copper hoarding thread I've seen in the last several months.


There is even a website dedicated to the info on hoarding them as well as these nifty little machines called a ryedale.
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Tim Stroud's Avatar
United States
2661 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2010  4:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tim Stroud to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is the way I see it. It is a copper penny or cent if you will. It is now and will always be worth at least one cent until the day comes that the penny is demonetized. Right now there is a melt ban on copper U.S. coinage thus making it illegal to melt or sell them for melting, Still, only worth one cent regardless of metal content. It may never be legal to melt copper cents or it could become legal next year, who knows what the clowns in D.C. will do next. If you want to hoard copper cents, hoard them, it is not going to hurt anyone. However there are much better investments out there that can earn you a steady income with being so heavy and taking up all that space, nor would they be required to be loaded up into trucks and hauled off to market to be sold in order for you to realize any type of monetary gain.
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BadThad's Avatar
United States
19963 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2010  3:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This has been discussed many times.

The bottomline, look what the gov did with silver. This copper ban is no different. Think of the millions of people that just kept using silver coinage as everyday cash.....all the while everyone and gov is saying it's only worth face value. The smart people were hoarding the heck out of silver and rec'd a nice payday eventually.

It's no problem for me to hoard copper. I have a 5 gal pail I toss them into, it's about 2-3 inches from being filled now at which point I'll start another. When that melt ban ends I'll cash in. It's eventually going to end!
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
189053 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2010  3:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It's no problem for me to hoard copper. I have a 5 gal pail I toss them into, it's about 2-3 inches from being filled now at which point I'll start another. When that melt ban ends I'll cash in. It's eventually going to end!
Exactly!

Let's say that five gallon pail holds 25,000 cents (a conservative estimate because my one gallon wine jug has a little over 5000 cents in it).

The choices are to cash it in for $250 (minus a percentage that many places charge now) or hold on to it for a few years to receive $500 or more for it.

Seriously, a five gallon container is not that big at all.

It always comes down to the question "Can afford to hold on to them?"
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numismo's Avatar
United States
3039 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2010  4:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I too have been hoarding copper cents for a couple of years. I needed to free up some cash so I just sold 5000 of them on ebay for $80. I had to pay the postage ($11.50) so I made $18.50 (37%)
A little now instead of a lot more later.
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