So I Got A Warning Msg From Paypal For Accepting 'Customer'

I received the same a couple weeks back. I just requested check or M/O especially from repeat customers. Besides, it wont be long before they start sending 1099's for cumulative total of 5k. I think that is where ebay sends out statements, so I've heard.
nlp

E-gads! Not a gift! Not a prob. I've been frozen twice this year, and it seems the worst that could happen is getting called unsavory names here.

Its a fuzzy area. I don't really want an argument, but someone who does ebay trying to circumvent a huge amount of fees isn't really the same as doing some trading with friends, which still could be considered 'personal' to an extent and used in place of slower checks. Besides, you pay the fees for the buyer protection and paypal services, which with friendly small time trading is the reason that people are okay going paypal no fee (no protection). ebay (same company) rips people off anyway with the fees, and dishonestly spun the last fee increase as a decrease. If the big companies will do whatever they can in their power to make more money (even if that means dishonesty), I see no problem with others thwarting that by bending the system a little bit.

I guess this is part of some kind of 'crackdown', glad to hear that I'm not alone in that. I'm surprised that they did it to you though nlp, did you even receive many paypal personal payments? I received a handful of them but not even that many, and on the biggest one I paid fees anyway because he funded it with CC ($67, sheesh)

I personally do not do much more than trading with friends. I don't feel particularly strongly about this subject but I do have a lot of experience with typing out philosophical mega-posts so I'll give my full thoughts on 'morality' in business and economics and the world to an extent (warning, this is going to go on and on and on.... )


I disagree with your views based on my belief of the amorality of our economic systems (to a high extent). I also see things very differently when a company is a monopoly or a pseudo monopoly. Anyone who wants to make substantial money through auctions generally needs to use ebay, and ebay knows this well so they jack up their rates to insane levels because they know people cannot avoid using their service and other companies cannot compete with them. ebay was also doing fine on the last fee schedule, which was apparently already considered high yet they effectively doubled these fees (or more) for mid range auctions. Why? Because they can. Monopolies have no 'right' (in my view) to be monopolies or do what they do. They do what they do because they can and our society promotes this kind of behavior.

They also do many, many dishonest things to protect this money such as letting dishonest power sellers run free and deceitful marketing. They do this not to protect their livelihood and elevate their living standards to middle class, they do this as they are already filthy rich. Since I believe capitalism and its archetype (accumulating huge amounts of wealth) to be amoral, I have no problem with people bending the rules to get around it since ebay will do whatever it wants to make more money anyway.

I don't believe the above is 'good' or 'bad' (unless one needs to beat the system to fulfill some basic human need), just amoral.....like the ebb and flow of a gigantic ocean. I think that people in general should focus on the monopolies that pull these kinds of tactics over individuals who bend the rules, since if an individual bending the rules is wrong, then the monopoly pulling all kinds of dishonest things is much much more wrong. But, in the end, I don't really believe either is wrong, its just the way our system is set up and is amoral. In essence, there is little moral value in the way things are set up anyway, so bending the rules in such a system can't be immoral. Ideally, yes, the rules would be fair and accommodate everybody to a reasonable extent, and people would play by them. But it just isn't the way the world is. Things are the way they are, and they're not going anywhere.

It's the same with speed limits, in my opinion. Amoral at best, immoral at worst.....IF they are set in a way that doesn't conform to engineering safety standards, which most do not (think 55 on a wide open 8 lane interstate). I study traffic engineering in my spare time to an extent (most who get angry about this do not), and I see forum threads where people are harping on a guy for getting a 60 in a 45 construction zone ticket. Oh, you could have caused an accident, etc etc. Yet, as someone who drives a fair bit, I see 'construction zones' all the time where there is no construction active, no obstruction, a 6 lane open highway, and a speed limit of 40 to 50 mph. Most people DO slow down in the truly obstructed areas or when workers are present, so the people harping on this guy probably would have been going the same 60+ in a 45 without realizing it. I guess my point is that if the system is set up in an amoral or immoral way (monopolies being a case in point), then bending the rules isn't really wrong, its amoral at worst.

The point of the above was more to illustrate how often 'morality' can be illusive, and I guess my view of the world in general. I have a problem with people bending the rules if the rules are set up to protect people from having their basic rights violated (and as I made clear above, I don't believe all the things discussed deal with that). I just don't believe other things have moral weight. My views are different than most peoples' on this subject most likely, so I'd be interested to hear some ideas on this subject. Maybe I should have posted a new thread in general discussion...

I can use that exact same logic to rationalize and/or justify pretty much any action I care to take. Here's a couple examples:

It's not wrong to cheat on my wife because enough people are doing it that it's the norm.

It's ok to drink & drive because I'm still fully functional when my BAC is above the limit.

Doctoring coins for resale is ok because it's just part of the economy. Cracking coins out of problem slabs to resell is ok for the same reasons.

As many of you know I deal only in cash and their is a reason why. It's called pay-pal. Never deposited $$$$ for a sale I made on ebay. And I do not have the time, patients, or computer skills to deal with that kind of B.S. WOLF

I made this same argument when everyone first started to accept gift option for payments. Paypal charges a fee for payments to people selling things, in return you get your money fast. If you get around their fees when you trade or sell (what ever you want to call it) its stealing from that company and it doesn't matter if they are a big company or the local corner store owned by grandma and grandpa kettle that sells things they grow in their garden. if you steal what they are offering its theft. I know I have heard people say I dont do enough business to hurt the big company but just think if 1000 people did it, would it hurt them then? what about a million people, what then? If the answer is yes then you can see there is a problem, you just may be that millionth person. I was surprised when they started this gift option because I knew it would be used in this matter. I don't think they will keep it very long because of people using it to get money from their "trading".

I have heard people say this is like the free miles credit card thing that everyone did with the mint but I do disagree with that statement because the credit card company was giving you that as a reward for using the card. Yes it was a loop hole but you still did what you agreed to do to get the miles, you used the card. This paypal thing you are not doing what you are asked to do. They ask if you are getting a payment for something (any kind of payment whether it be for work done or payment for items) that you pay pay pal fees for the ease of having your money fast, if yo don't want to pay the fees use another form of payment and wait for your money. There is a price to be paid for ease of use and quickness of payment. The gift option was added for people that have kids in College or something that need a few extra bucks here and there or something like that not to get out of paying fees when you "trade" your items for payment (which is selling no matter how you want to word it)

I googled this and it appears this is almost universal.