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1936-S Over 1929 Possible Over Date.

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arsave's Avatar
United States
225 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2010  9:47 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add arsave to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This coin is listed in the CherryPickers Guide. Every time I post it there seems to be contriversy. Please note it says possible. The coin is very cool as a variety. Take a look and let me know what you think.

This one is graded as Genuine (cleaned) by PCGS and attributed.
1936-S-Over-1929-Possible-Over-Date.

This second one is also graded and attributed by PCGS XF-45.

1936-S-Over-1929-Possible-Over-Date.
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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  11:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My honest opinion is that someone is viewing some die gouges with a very active imagination.
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arsave's Avatar
United States
225 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  11:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add arsave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Like I said in the original post controversial.
Keep in mind these coins are listed in the CherryPickers' Guide, and attributed by PCGS. I'm only the massager.
Every time I have sent images to someone who wanted to disprove the coins, all I get in return is deafening silence. The under two matches more closely with the 1928 dated coins, but the whole theory would have to be checked with every date die from the 1920's.

I have sent large imaged to James Wiles of CONECA, and to other's on the PCGS message boards.

I'm sure there are more out there. The only four I know of are the two I have (PCGS Genuine, PCGS XF45), the one recently sold on ebay for over $1300 (NGC MS65FB), and the one Bill Fivaz owns (PCGS MS63).

Even if it only is die gouges, they are the coolest die gouges I've ever seen on a coin.
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  12:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I really have a hard time believing that a 1928 die sat around the Mint for 8 years, only to be rehubbed in 1936. That would be an unprecedented gap in US Minting history CPG varieties have also been delisted in the past when proven to be spurious, the 1980-D/S Lincoln "OMM" is one of the better known examples.
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arsave's Avatar
United States
225 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  12:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add arsave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PCGS removed the 1941-S DDR when they received my coin for grading because it was too minor. The whatever it is on this coin is easily seen.

This really wouldn't be any different than the speared bison or Wisconsin extra leaf quarters.
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DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  2:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I really have a hard time believing that a 1928 die sat around the Mint for 8 years, only to be rehubbed in 1936.
There isn't a precedent for that date spread on any modern US coin, is there? That would be a dramatic, well-documented overdate by now.

The US coin experts can speak far better than me on domestic varieties, but as a world overdate collector I have a few overdates with a wide date spread. Usually these happen when a mint suspends striking that denomination for a few years. But, I have yet to find one that isn't documented somewhere.
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macmercury's Avatar
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5832 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  2:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was looking at that 65FB on ebay and just couldn't get over at the price. I'd say nice pick up, this series isn't as popular like most other series.
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arsave's Avatar
United States
225 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  5:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add arsave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply



Quote:
I really have a hard time believing that a 1928 die sat around the Mint for 8 years, only to be rehubbed in 1936.
There isn't a precedent for that date spread on any modern US coin, is there? That would be a dramatic, well-documented overdate by now.

The US coin experts can speak far better than me on domestic varieties, but as a world overdate collector I have a few overdates with a wide date spread. Usually these happen when a mint suspends striking that denomination for a few years. But, I have yet to find one that isn't documented somewhere.

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Anything is possible. We are talking about a government agency. LOL. Also the authors of the CherryPickers' Guide make reference to it being over the years or the great depression.

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garylcsr's Avatar
United States
1952 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2010  8:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add garylcsr to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I could be wrong but I don't think it is possible that a 29 laid around long enough to be used again as a 36. I know stranger things have happened but I don't see it
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DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2010  10:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Anything is possible.
That's a fun idea, but actually the minting process helps us here, by limiting what is possible. Thanks to experts on US coins, collectors gain knowledge to better understand and eliminate what cannot happen. Otherwise, we might fall for every damaged coin in circulation.

Like I said, I'm a world overdate collector. But, I do know about US Indian cents. For that series, certain varieties are possible--while others are not. For example, there is only one documented, proven overdate: the 1888/7 Snow-1; any others are speculative. While there are many RPDs on IHCs, it is not possible for 1909, because the date was hubbed on the die.

Back to Lincoln cents--there isn't a single, docukmented overdate. It wouldn't be unreasonable to conclude the minting practices made this an impossibility.
Edited by DVCollector
12/24/2010 10:28 pm
Valued Member
arsave's Avatar
United States
225 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2010  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add arsave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
DVC you compare to Lincoln and Indian Head cents to say impossible.

Did you know there are two confirmed overdates in the Mercury dime Series.

1942 over 1941, and 1942 over 1941-D.

I would say nothing is impossible when you involve a government agency. By your analysis these coins don't exist either.
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DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2010  6:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
1942 over 1941, and 1942 over 1941-D.
Well, sure--those are well-documented with numerous examples of re-hubbing a die from the previous year.

Quote:

I would say nothing is impossible when you involve a government agency. By your analysis these coins don't exist either.
Honestly, I don't see how this applies to striking coins because manufacturing processes, not to mention bureacracy, tend to limit what is possible.

If a new overdate turned up I'd think that would be cool. But, like others, I haven't seen enough evidence (or documentation) to be convinced. That's about it--best wishes.
Edited by DVCollector
12/25/2010 6:42 pm
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insideout's Avatar
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591 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2010  6:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add insideout to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1942 over 1941, and 1942 over 1941-D. That is only a year time span if that depending on when they actually stopped minting the 41's.
IMO the 8 year period seems a bit long. Plus you would think you would see more of the trace of a 9 where the 6 is.

Of course there is always the possibility of the human factor I guess. I'm not sure how the whole process works. Just adding my 2 cents.

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arsave's Avatar
United States
225 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2010  10:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add arsave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As I said in the original post--possible. All I ask is people keep an open mind. I have supplied CONECA with images along with some others on the PCGS message board to disprove the coin. If they could prove it isn't possible I'm sure I would have heard about it by now.
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x78089's Avatar
United States
255 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2010  3:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add x78089 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
well, I hope this all turns out for you. Having two of four known works out well for you.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2010  08:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 1942/1 overdates aren't even a one year span because they were making both dates of dies at the same time in late 1941. But since the 1870s all of the previous years dated dies and hubs are destroyed either at the end of the year or before April of the following year (It varied from year to year.) The chances of a dated die sitting around for six years is VERY unlikely. (I have to admit though it does look intriguing.) The longest span I can think of off the top of my head in the US series is three years fro the 1839/6 large cent, or the 1827/5/3 quarter.
Edited by Conder101
12/27/2010 08:32 am
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