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2 Reales 1743 Pillar Coin With Countermark

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 3,133Next Topic  
New Member
Gonzalo de Sandoval's Avatar
Mexico
15 Posts
 Posted 12/20/2010  2:12 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Gonzalo de Sandoval to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello everybody!

First of all my name is Gonzalo, I am from Mexico city I´m really glad to be on this forum and hope I can learn a lot from it.

Well, this is a 2 reales 1743 pillar coin minted in Mexico City, the material is silver and it weights 6.4 grams (0.218 oz).

My question is, What kind of countermark does it has in the reverse side of the coin?

I really don´t know and wish you can help me with it...

2-Reales-1743-Pillar-Coin-With-Countermark
2-Reales-1743-Pillar-Coin-With-Countermark

Thanks in advance and greetings from Mexico!
Rest in Peace
pls's Avatar
United States
1729 Posts
 Posted 12/20/2010  2:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Bienvenido, Gonsalo.

Someone more knowledgeable than I will be along soon to answer you question. Just wanted to be the first to welcome you to our happy forum.
Pillar of the Community
t0rress's Avatar
Bulgaria
843 Posts
 Posted 12/20/2010  3:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t0rress to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pillar of the Community
svslav's Avatar
United States
2605 Posts
 Posted 12/20/2010  5:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add svslav to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome Gonzalo!

t0rress, many coins throughout the history were countermarked by different governments who thus "authorized" otherwise foreign coins to be a legal tender on their territory.
New Member
Gonzalo de Sandoval's Avatar
Mexico
15 Posts
 Posted 12/20/2010  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gonzalo de Sandoval to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the welcome pls and svslav!

Yes t0rress, as svslav said it is a countermark, but I don´t have information about that.
Valued Member
odentheviking's Avatar
United States
425 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2010  11:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add odentheviking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome Gonzalo, I know very little about countermarks/stamps, but I am also waiting for someone to i.d. this one! I don't think I have ever seen it before. It looks like the "Jerusalem Cross" seen on so many Spanish coins, but what are the 4 circles? It looks very much like the design on this coin:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_exx06B1Zo...PICT4158.jpg

New Member
Gonzalo de Sandoval's Avatar
Mexico
15 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2010  1:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gonzalo de Sandoval to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello odentheviking

I think its really hard to identificate this countermark. As you said, it is the Jerusalem Cross and the circles I think they are from the portuguese coat of arms.

This is the closest thing I´ve found..
http://i34.tinypic.com/vy5q3b.jpg
Pillar of the Community
svslav's Avatar
United States
2605 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2010  3:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add svslav to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My initial reaction was Portugal too, but I looked at the Portuguese and its colonial coins and I didn't see any countermark resembling this. Yours looks too "old" and crude for Portugal.
Pillar of the Community
jfransch's Avatar
United States
1801 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2010  6:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jfransch to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have been collecting pillar coins for 30 years and I have never seen that counterstamp before. To tag onto svslav's comment above, all the Portuguese counterstamps I have seen are of a crown or monetary number.
New Member
Gonzalo de Sandoval's Avatar
Mexico
15 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2010  9:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gonzalo de Sandoval to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can it be a merchant or a personal countermark?

I have no clue

Pillar of the Community
svslav's Avatar
United States
2605 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2010  9:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add svslav to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was hoping someone would chime in on the authenticity of the host coin. Otherwise the whole thing could be just a fantasy piece.
Valued Member
odentheviking's Avatar
United States
425 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2010  11:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add odentheviking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Quote: "I was hoping someone would chime in on the authenticity of the host coin."

That's interesting, I had not thought of that......it does have a odd brown color with some form of gold paint/brass right where the c/m is placed.
Gonzalo, is this a trick of the photograph or is this coin maybe holed and plugged? Also, can you show us a close up of the edge? Most fakes of 2Reales that I have seen are copper/brass w/silver plateing, unless its some form of modern/China fake.

I hate to even mention this .....BUT! While visiting Santa Fe, New Mexico I did happen across a jewelry shop that had some very interesting silver bars and rounds as jewery. They had this same cross, but where the circles are they had "S,F,N,M". The shop owner said that a local artist found some old documentation(?), that in the early 1820's Santa Fe had taken Spanish coins/cobs and pounded out the images and placed this countermark/stamp on their silver. This silver was then traded to the new group of traders coming in from America, and with traders from Mexico.
It is historical fact that with the shortage of silver/gold coins in the Western United States area in the 1820's, many St. Louis traders set out for Taos and Santa Fe, NM blazing the Sante Fe and Cimmoran Trails. There are even newspaper accounts of these traders returning to St. Louis and paying back their sponcers, bankers, by cutting open bags of silver coins right out in the streets!
New Member
Gonzalo de Sandoval's Avatar
Mexico
15 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2011  03:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gonzalo de Sandoval to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello guys...

here is the picture of the edge, and no, it is no holed and plugged..

[URL="http://img402.imageshack.us/i/dscf2909l.jpg/]2-Reales-1743-Pillar-Coin-With-Countermark[/URL]

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