What Recomendations Do You Have To Improve The VAM Hobby?

OZ, I my self made the same suggestion, a simple step by step, pictures included, I like pictures, that explains the entire process, we have the "book" but a program like a mentoring system would IMO, be a very good idea.

I would suggest people of knowledge, share their knowledge to have some sort of level playing field. I am also NOT a happy camper with the dealers in the equation, and their motives, or intentions W/E they are.

I would suggest people in numbers with the knowledge to support standing alone would be a great first line of improvement, I would also suggest this site, being a premiere knowledge pool for all to engage in, have another level of schooling, or assistance with the topic at hand, "WE" could also place an attribution arena on this site for learning and understanding among our selves.Why can We not put up pages of known VAMS for ALL to refer to and build up our own book or guide to Vams. I will also add, another site is NOT as organized as it could be and IMO, is out of control with what is and what is NOT.The timing is ripe for a bold move, a move no one would of expected or believe could or would be done......

I know this might sound odd for an adult, but pictures are a tremendous aid in the learning process for me, something like our own "book" to refer to and help to guide and aid in learning this addicting, yet adventurous and exciting hobby.......A book that everyone who has a talent for w/e could join in and help put together and have as a tool to simplify the already confusing system, just my opinions..... I would challenge ALL who lurk, post, or just wish to give some input, to join in to voice your opinions in this growing hobby we have come to know as the world of VAMS..........

in my opinion there is no way to have a step by step of each and every VAM. The database would be HUGE. I think what we are doing here and other forums will be what it takes to advance the hobby into the future. I think VAMWorld was a big step in the right direction also, it is allot more than has EVER been given for allot of other varieties. We all know one of our members has a site dedicated to Lincoln Cent varieties just as VW is dedicated to VAM's, I am just not sure what else can be asked as its allot more than others have. So all we have to do is help educate those who have questions the best we can

We welcome your Input Mitch...I have recently moved fro Tacoma so I know what your talking about...some shops won't let you examine anything, just tell them your price range...there way of just selling you a coin....and not getting tricked , as if there are all these 1943
copper pennies and 55 doubled dies just floating around...
The fact is very few big money vams are found in the bucket and the dealers in most part don't have a large quantity of buyers who are VAM interested....nor do they have the time to sequencialy attribute there entire collection to a VERY SMALL market....There are all denominations which have DIE "VARIETIES" but few who have the money to claim they have the elite collection when most are just happy to "PLUG" the whole in there album.......
But this is not only a hobby for the vammer, but a learning experience which has generated such interest...SUCH AS/dealers interest...Big money for SOME COINS....yet most have few known and this game is played only by the elite who have the money to compete on a grand scale......IF you look at the money these people have,, they buy many coins each week from a few hundred to a few thousand every week of the highest grades........the average collector does not buy on this scale...
AND THIS IS THE POINT.....Many will feel for who knows why..that there common coin is worth a fortune,, tonight I saw an PCGS 84-0 MS64 that was toned listed on ebay for $29,000
While there may be some rich person somewhere with no brains for true value but has the money to waist...these people are still looking for suckers......
Vamming is the learning experience of the process of the Morgan errors..Its ALL encompassing from the die making process to the coins minted...
From the silver as it was pre-paired for the coining process, and the presses used and there function and deficiency's...
Not as if its a DODGE AND WEAVE as we learn from those who would try to over market common crap.....one does not have to jump into VAMMING and believe its only a rich mans game or that your missing out and your coin is worth a fortune......
the value of coins in raw or graded condition is still a variable,
while on ebay...a Raw coin in MS 63 will sell very close to a GRADED ms 63 coin...however to grade this coin by a TPG it costs almost as much as the coin.....AS Oz reminds us....to compete...its a very steep learning curve.....But I say to you if you don't compete it costs nothing to advance your learning by participating and researching yours and others coins.....ON a limited income?
Just meaning you can't buy 10 coins to research a month there are many more that are posted and you can study and learn, and ask questions..............you can go to other sites and see the questions and answers of others posts.......The knowledge is here and there....but lurking and asking nothing no one learns...we learn by all of our questions and all of our answers....Its a seeking of knowledge we share in question and answer....

The solution starts and ends with information. I'm not going to jump into the jello pool of discussing how that information comes to be, or whether the originators of that information deserve compensation, but the information must be available. That means not written but visual cues for identifying VAMs. Preferably all of them.

The technology to create such information lies within the financial grasp of anyone who can afford one decent MS65 coin, and the technical skill is tecahable. An appropriate repository for such information already exists, although I dearly wish they'd get over the idea of a wiki and arrange a more suitable format.

The next generation of collectors is growing up acclimated to this format. They don't buy books; they don't read newspapers. Their information is gathered online, without ever leaving the house. If they're going to be mentored, it will happen in places like Coin Community, not at local coin clubs. I won't go so far as to predict the death of local coin clubs, but I won't call it a growth industry either.

I really don't see dealers, whatever type, as anything but a short-term impediment to the hobby. They don't exist without customers, and the market will eventually either drive them to serve VAMmers or drive them away. They face increasing pressure from online sales - heck, many of them are now doing the lion's share of their business online, and although I don't see coin shows disappearing any time soon, I *do* see brick/mortar coin shops steadily declining into the future.

The dealer of the future could end up being someone much like me - a dude sitting at a computer in his living room. You need inventory, knowledge, a decent camera and a license to do business. And the Internet. That's it.

The answer to this is not the method or the VAM picture repository we leave behind us and not the quantity but the quality of the students that pursue this hobby after us. That we can't control and I will clarify that by using the chicken and egg theory. The chicken being the nuturing heat source (be it human or disc space) and the egg being the student (but not all are chicken eggs). In my nuturing, I've been lucky enough to hatch a few Rhode Island Reds and a range chicken or two and even had a few eggs that refused to hatch. The one good thing that I'm proud of is that I never hatched out a bird of prey. So am I a good mentor or a bad mentor? Is it just me to blame for not doing more or enough, or do the quality of the eggs come into
play?
Now in the future, the egg plays a less critical roll. It's off to the dealer with our little handy dandy Morgan laptop that we can scan a coin with. Hit a button and presto, we have a VAM number, another button and we know whether to buy it or not and whether we made a good deal and how rich we are about to become. The last screen comes up with a smiley face and tells you you are the best vammer around, BUT ARE YOU REALLY? What do you know about the coin, the minting process or the VAM number, date, time and quantity of the first ones struck? Are you a Rhode Island Red or a bird of prey?

Exactly Smitty, given the materialistic nature of the generation-X-er versus altruistic views of those who remember the 'back in the day', would you necessarily be mentoring a future hobbyist, or just another gold digger?

The days of viewing the Morgan for its beauty are being replaced by days of viewing it for its monetary potential, and that is an evolutionary event, when the prey population recedes, so will the numbers of predator.....That is what I see as being inevitable.

The gen-x student may be devious in the acceptance of mentoring, or may unknowingly change intent when the subject of money comes up.... A student will only learn what is accepted, and ignore that which is boring.... lower your expectations of what is really possible.... the gen-x student differs from you (genetically and generationaly).... The mentoring of the dealer is naturally more appealing than the bright eyed words of the decaying collector.

edited to add:

My point is simply this:

I believe that Oz wants to see an appreciation for these coins being mentored..... Easier said than done when considering an inherent unwillingness to do anything more than study dollar signs, especially in tough economic times.... denounce the lists of what is worth collecting first, secondly shed light on the intentional deceit of these rarity factors.... then there might be hope for this.... until the mentor fixes the lesson program, only future short term dealers will be spawned.